Engine Weights

[Mark Diffley]

Anyone know the weight of the newer model R6, Gsx600r and zx-6 engines?

Any advantage to using these over the F4's?

Thanks

Mark Diffley
Bradley University
Society of Automotive Engineers, President
FSAE Engine/Driveline Team Member

[Mark Diffley]

Anyone know the weight of the newer model R6, Gsx600r and zx-6 engines?

Any advantage to using these over the F4's?

Thanks

Mark Diffley
Bradley University
Society of Automotive Engineers, President
FSAE Engine/Driveline Team Member

[A Reinke]

i believe the Suzuki GSXR600 made the most power of the bunch, at least in 2001 it did, and that's why we use it. as for weight, i was told the F4 is lighter. the clutch on the F4 is also pretty easy to use, unlike the Suzuki's which is a pain to get setup right.

~Adam

[Mi_Ko]

My opinion is the stock power doesn't matter, because the power depends on the carburator (or direct injection) and electronics which you gonna change. The bore sizes and the rpm all nearly the same on all bikes.

There are only small differences in weights - a few kg, which you can loose elsewhere.

You should look how good can you package the engine and where can you get cheap spare parts.

2002/03 University of MARIBOR - Team Member

[Lyn Labahn UW-Madison]

Ding Ding Ding Ding Mi_Ko has it right!

The restrictor really levels the playing field most of these engines. Additional things to consider:

Newer fuel injected bikes tend to have stators with a larger output to run the electronics and injectors.

If you are gunning for a short wheelbase, don't forget that the length of the engine will be a major restriction on how small your engine bay can be.

Newer engines tend to integrate electronics that most FSAE teams have to work to integrate into older designs.

Mass distribution of the engines. I am not really sure how they compare, but if you could find out....

Strength of internals/tranny. Since we switched from our antiquated FZRs to 2001+ gixxer, we have had less mechanical problems. This can be attributed to the fact that the newer engines are built with more horsepower in mind, and the ones that we purchase haven't had nearly as many miles on them.



That being said, I would reccomend for all new teams that you try and open the covers/take the head off etc if you don't have too. Modern motorcycle engines are built very precisely and can be reliable, if you don't go bugging around inside of them and screw em up!

Main advantage to not going with the F4i? Dare to be different!

[Sam]

We have stuck with the F3 for three years now, hence we have gotten to know the engine well and can continue to develop our package. If you switch to a new engine you are back to square one.
I am of the opinion that these engines are indeed pretty much alike after being restricted and development is the only way you are going to get a power advantage over other teams.
obviously a point comes when you have a stone age engine and it's worth switching to a newer type of engine.

there's not much point in comparing these engines in bikes as some run carbies, different throttle types/openings and the standard Kwaka is a 636cc

Sam Graham
Engine Group Leader 2003
UQ Racing

[gus]

OK, design judges never hear this...

a big reason we use our engine (zx-6r) is that we're comfortable with it. By god, I can tell you almost every torque spec and socket size on the top end of our engine in metric and english systems. We first got a kawi because it was cheap on e-bay, and now we have multiple engines for spares. Its an engine we're accustomed to, has a nice deep oil pan that won't dry under heavy g's (yeah, it raises the cg), and neutral lock out is always swell. Its also not as tall as some engines out there, and is a good fit for our teams' chassis paradigm (partially because that paradigm was created around the engine).

see what it'll take to get your engine running on EFI if thats your route. see how hard it is to work on, see how much spare parts are (yeah, we too have gone thru a few pistons and what not), and get used to your special girl.

just don't get an f4. grow some balls, try something new. hehe, that's my 2cents.

Gus Aramayo II
Iowa State Cyclone Racing
Engine Team Co-Captain

[Chris Boyden]

Gus, did your balls grow by sticking with the zx-6r?

[radgata_racing]

Folks,
Actually what about the original question?? Has anyone ever put an engine on a scale?? Any 600cc engine?? All I need would be a ballpark figure.
Cheers
Stephane

[woollymoof]

http://fsae.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=763607348&f=125607348&m=4086028582

Cheers,

Kirk Veitch
Swinburne University of Technology 2004

[PatClarke]

Quoth Gus........" OK, design judges never hear this... "


hehehehe....Oh yes they do http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
PDR

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[RiNaZ]

i have a question. There is an international team who's thinking of using a daihatsu MIRA 660cc (you can find them in the Japanese K-car). It's a car engine, with 3 cylinders.

They're using the engine mainly becoz it's only cost $50 instead of a $600-$700 dollar Kawasaki, honda, yamaha motorcycle engine.

It is heavy, but they dont know how to weigh the engine. I dont know either, so if anybody can help out in giving out tips on how to weigh the car engine, it would greatly appreciated.

RiNaZ

[Igor]

If you wish to know how much the engine weighs:

Weigh the complete car.
Remove the engine.
Weigh the car again.
Subtract the second number from the first and you've got your engine weight.

:-)
Igor

[PatClarke]

Rinaz, there already is an International team who use a 600cc minicar engine in their FSAE car. It has been seen twice at least at Pontiac. The engine is bolted to a Hewland VW beetle based gearbox, and the whole thing weighs a heap...probably 100kg more than the norm. The car has been well presented, well constructed and well built, but it is heavy and slow, and possibly unreliable because of the extra weight it has to haul around.
BTW, how does this 'International team' propose to reduce the capacity of their $50 engine to the legal 600cc? Will you sleeve it or destroke it?
PDR

Rudeness is a weak mans imitation of strength

[Brent Howard]

Why is weighing the engine so hard? They weight like 140 lbs or something. Pick it up (one or 2 guys) walk it over to a scale, drop it on, read the number, write it down, and use it. I know it seems like alot of work, but really shouldn't take more than 15 minutes.

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[RiNaZ]

Suddenlee, using the 660cc Daihatsu MIRA car was actually my idea since the engine is relatively cheap compared to other motorcycle engines. Since most of the participating member of this "international team" are freshmen, i adviced them to just use the cheapest engine around so they can just worry about chasis and suspension set-ups. Once they have a good understanding of vehicle dynamics, maybe then, they could spend $600-$700 on a motorcycle engine (they're in malaysia, so USD600 is kinda like a fortune over there). So right now, they shouldnt have to worry about make it to the legal 600cc limitation on the engine. By the way, do you know which international team use the 600cc minicar engine in their FSAE car? Last time i visited malaysia, they had a 550cc Daihatsu MIRA L2 engine for a 100 bucks.

Brent Howard, i dont think the Daihatsu MIRA engine weight 140lbs. I remember it took 2-3 people to just "hold" the engine, and maybe more to put it on an engine rig. And i dont think you can use bathroom scale to weigh the engine. This is no motorcycle engine.

Thanks for the tips and comment guys, looking forward to see yall in detroit next year!


RiNaZ

[Brent Howard]

Rinaz,

I wasn't talking about the Japanese engine, I was talking about a motorcycle engine...such as the one in the original question (Gsx600r or zx-6). These engines are not that heavy and one person should be able to lift it. As for the bathroom scale thing, I think many 300 lb people weigh themselves on it, that's why the scale goes that high. We use digital bathroom scales to set corner weights. If that s not an option most universities will have larger scales, or even farmers will have scales to weigh feed and calves. There are a multitude of scales that can measure under 200 lb.

Brent

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[formula_geek]

Rinaz-

If you are serious about using the Mira engine, I can probably get you more information on it. Our Clean Snowmobile Challenge team retrofitted the Mira engine into a Yamaha snowmobile. The package worked well for them, we've won the competition twice!!

Travis Slagle
Kettering University FSAE

[RiNaZ]

Brent Howard, sorry ... didnt realize the comment was for the original question. I'll look into farmer scales that you mentioned. Thanks.

Formula_geek, that's great! I guess i'll email you personally as there is no interest of that engine to this forum. Thanks again!

RiNaZ

[RiNaZ]

hey formula_geek, i tried finding your email address but to no avail. Do you have any email i cant send an email to?

RiNaZ