Fastest car and driver combo

[Joseph]

Fastest car and driver combo

The car 60 %
Reliability and build quality 20 %
Power train and braking system 20 %
Suspension and handling 20%

Driver skill 40 %
Natural ability 15 %
Practice 25 %

If you had to weight the importance of all the major factors contributing to lap speed what factors would you list and how would you rate them?

Joseph Kliewer
University of Oklahoma

[Joseph]

Fastest car and driver combo

The car 60 %
Reliability and build quality 20 %
Power train and braking system 20 %
Suspension and handling 20%

Driver skill 40 %
Natural ability 15 %
Practice 25 %

If you had to weight the importance of all the major factors contributing to lap speed what factors would you list and how would you rate them?

Joseph Kliewer
University of Oklahoma

[Denny Trimble]

Car: 5%
Driver's Skill: 5%
Concentration of Red Bull in Driver's Blood: 90%

University of Washington Formula SAE ('98, '99, '03, '04)

[karter]

I can't see trying to rate these, the car/driver is a total package, loose one bolt (from the car or driver) and poof!

[Charlie]

Impossible.

One thing to remember is the driver's percentage depends on the car too.

Our car is easy to drive, so it's easier to go fast in than a car that *might* have a higher capability.

A razors-edge car means the driver's percentage goes up.

-Charlie Ping
Auburn University FSAE (http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/SAE/AUFSAE)

[Ryan Schoffer]

not to mention that some drivers find some car configurations hard to get fast times in, and other configurations (even if they are technically inferior) easy to drive

Vehicle electronics leader

www.ucalgary.ca/fsae (http://www.ucalgary.ca/fsae)

[Andy K]

100% car
110% driver

Andris Kanins
McGill Racing Team
2002/2003 Body Design
2003/2004 Suspension

[Piper]

A famous autocross saying...
90% car, 5% driver, and 5% crazy mojo!

[Ry-Guy]

50% tires
10% Car design
40% driver

Without good tires a good car and a good driver are worthless. Without a good driver the best car in the world is worthless. With good tires a fairly crappy car can do excellent compaired to a well engineered car with crap tires. It's all about the rubber.

-Ryan

[Tire Guy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ry-Guy:
50% tires
10% Car design
40% driver

.....It's all about the rubber.

-Ryan <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right on Ry-Guy! I've done countless hours of tire testing.....and the right type of rubber can mean SECONDS on the track.

[chinesefonz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ry-Guy:
It's all about the rubber.

-Ryan <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

in more ways then one.... be safe out there. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Racingchef]

100% leadership ability http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

team captain
University of Stralsund, Germany

[Racingchef]

100%:
Just tell the hungry driver that he won't get something to eat if he won't beat the laptime of the first driver.
It is a true story. Done during the Autocross/Sprint at Formula Student 2004 (GB).
He has finished 2nd right behind RMIT.

team captain
University of Stralsund, Germany

[Big Bird]

Tell the driver he is being chased by a hungry German. Faster still... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers

[Racingchef]

Next time we'll tell him that he will get a "V Bitter" (world famous Australian beer).

He will be faster, promise me. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jan
team captain '01-'04
University of Stralsund

[Ry-Guy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Racingchef:
Next time we'll tell him that he will get a "V Bitter" (world famous Australian beer).

He will be faster, promise me. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jan
team captain '01-'04
University of Stralsund <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that case I'll let him know he will be forced to drink 3 bud lights if he wins. That'll be sure to slow him down http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Ryan
<span class="ev_code_WHITE">and we'll slash his all important tires.</span>

[Racingchef]

Don't underestimate his hunger.
He will be honoured to drink three bud lights=1/3 German beer. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jan
Alumni
University of Stralsund

[Didier Beaudoin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Racingchef:
100%:
Just tell the hungry driver that he won't get something to eat if he won't beat the laptime of the first driver.
It is a true story. Done during the Autocross/Sprint at Formula Student 2004 (GB).
He has finished 2nd right behind RMIT.

team captain
University of Stralsund, Germany <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wasn't it Polytechnique who finished 2nd in autocross/sprint? Did you starve our driver too? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Racingchef]

Wasn't it Polytechnique who finished 2nd in autocross/sprint? Did you starve our driver too? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]

We started in class 1 (200series). So, overall we've finished 2nd.

Jan
University of Stralsund

[Didier Beaudoin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Racingchef:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Didier Beaudoin:
Wasn't it Polytechnique who finished 2nd in autocross/sprint? Did you starve our driver too? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We started in class 1 (200series). So, overall we've finished 2nd.

Jan
University of Stralsund <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah yes, I remembered this after I posted.. Well done for your second place then, and continue to starve your drivers! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Racingchef]

Hi Didier,

thanks for hounoring our "little" success. We need't to starve our driver because he is always hungry. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jan
University of Stralsund

[UTA racer rikki]

There are a couple of sayings around UTA.

First, the most unreliable part on the car is the loose nut behind the steering wheel. The second is, a good driver can make a bad car look great just like a bad driver can make a good car look bad. Another thing that Dr. Woods likes to pull on us is that we won't pass his class unless we beat him.... or in some cases don't beat him http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

When it comes to driving, I think the car is out of the equation. The car should be prepared to the point that it's reliability should not be a consideration. Look at racing at the professional level. What percentages of pay do the drivers, mechanics, and engineers make relative to the total? That should tell you where the importance should be placed.

[BryanH]

Erik, A perhaps unintended consequence of FSAE comp rules is that a gifted driver is going to seriously stand out whereas in for example Euro F3 the diff btwn the winners and the never will is maybe 4 tenths. Lots of practice and a good race team will narrow the gap, rarely close it.
Fully agree with you re good driver/bad car but you won't see that in pro racing anymore.

What I really want to know is WTF is the story behind FSAE 99,00,01,02,03,04,05? Doesn't dad want you back home? Please put some effort into the answer as it's been a bit boring since Rob stopped posting.

[1975BMW2002]

I have repeatedly shown people in my FSAE program that the driver is the biggest variable in the equation.

I firmly believe that it is

80% driver
10% tires
10% car

I've seen a stock 2000 miata beat vipers, vettes and porsches driven by inferior drivers without an index. It helped that he was a national champion autocrosser, but that is my point. Build a reliable car, and start training your drivers yesterday, and you will do better than many teams out there.

In the endurance competition last year I was in a horribly underpowered car with a burning clutch, and still managed to pass other cars that I could see were being driven by people who had apparently never even heard of late apex, early apex, or trail braking. I honestly felt sorry for their teams.

Just my '02 cents worth
Bill

[Ry-Guy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1975BMW2002:
I have repeatedly shown people in my FSAE program that the driver is the biggest variable in the equation.

I firmly believe that it is

80% driver
10% tires
10% car

I've seen a stock 2000 miata beat vipers, vettes and porsches driven by inferior drivers without an index. It helped that he was a national champion autocrosser, but that is my point. Build a reliable car, and start training your drivers yesterday, and you will do better than many teams out there.

In the endurance competition last year I was in a horribly underpowered car with a burning clutch, and still managed to pass other cars that I could see were being driven by people who had apparently never even heard of late apex, early apex, or trail braking. I honestly felt sorry for their teams.

Just my '02 cents worth
Bill <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SHHHH!!!!!! We don't need to be telling everyone about that... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

-Ryan

[UTA racer rikki]

Halfast,

Well, here is my story. The reason you see the list of numbers behind my name is due to the fact that I have been involved with Formula SAE since I was a freshman. UT Arlington has a great program where anyone can be a member. It's totally voluntary, with the exception that you can get Senior design credit when you're a Senior of course. So anyways, on with my story. I guess I would really need to start at the beginning, back when Formula SAE was in its infancy.

Believe it or not, I was a 9 or 10 year old brat when I first saw Formula SAE. It was on the "South 40" parking lot of UTA's campus. My mother was actually an administrative assistant for the University and knew the competition was being held there. So, unaware of future consequences, she took me to the event back in 1989 or 1990. Something clicked with me then and there and I knew that I wanted to be an engineer, and I wanted to go to UTA. So, through the years growing up, we would occasionally go by the parking lot and see the cars running and the team testing. Years later, I ended up at UTA, enrolled in Mechanical Engineering, and involved with the Formula team. So, ever since the '99 team I have been involved in some form or fashion. I made the trip to Australia in '00, started driving in Detroit in '01 and have been a driver ever since. Not only that, my responsibilities on the team grew. I started as a machinist, frame builder, and general grunt worker. Each year I gained more responsibilities. I captained the '03 team. I graduated in May of 2003 with my bachelors degree, and by some miracle with honors and decided to continue on with a Masters degree. I was the chief engineer/chief designer for the '04 car. On top of this, I went to the first international Japan event as well as the 2004 Solo2 Nationals, both with successes of their own to speak of. This year, I have been asked to come back and be the Chief Engineer once more and teach the newer guys the "ropes" so to speak. Not to mention, some of the newer drivers really really want to beat me. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyways, Halfast, hope that clears up the list of numbers under my name. By the way, don't let anyone convince you that tires aren't important. If you think otherwise, then why is there a tire war going on in F1?

I think I just told my whole life story... good thing it's not finished yet! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Eddie Martin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by 1975BMW2002:

I firmly believe that it is

80% driver
10% tires
10% car <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't know if you can give percentages to these figures that apply to everyone. It really depends on the car and team etc.

Tyres are really critical, we took a gamble on tyres (that we hadn't tested enough) at Tailem Bend, 2003 Oz comp, and we were achingly slow. There are seconds a lap between brands and even tyres of the same brand. The different brands behave, in terms of grip and wear quite differently. I don't think there is a tyre two seconds a lap faster than what most people run at the moment, as claude rouelle has said but it definitely gets you thinking. If you have the wrong tyres for your car you have no chance of going fast.

Once you have a really well sorted car with good tyres then the driver becomes more and more important. I remember at the 2001 Oz comp the Ticuna car passing Leeds in the enduro. That bought home how important a driver is.

[Frank]

we'll be bringing ringer drivers this year