cost proplem :) , hlewan university fs team EGYPT

[Abdel-rahman]

suppp , i am a member of the brake team it's our first time in the competition and we got a problem with our final cost estimation for parts ... calipers are too expensive for many reason like there is no racing parts in Egypt and because they are expensive http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , any ideas i am talking about brembo calipers -.- ... also we consider using passenger car calipers ... so any ideas or advice from experienced ppl in the competition or any one http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[Abdel-rahman]

suppp , i am a member of the brake team it's our first time in the competition and we got a problem with our final cost estimation for parts ... calipers are too expensive for many reason like there is no racing parts in Egypt and because they are expensive http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , any ideas i am talking about brembo calipers -.- ... also we consider using passenger car calipers ... so any ideas or advice from experienced ppl in the competition or any one http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[Abdel-rahman]

another thing ... for thermal stress analysis i used the equations for repeated brake application ignored single stop and continued , because from wat i understood i can make the formulas of the repeated like single stop by make n = 1 , and the continued is for down hill or up hill and the track does not have major grade .

in other words should i consider the brake system is single stop,repeated, or continued brake application ?!

my reference is brake design and safety second edition - limpart

[sbrenaman]

If you have a problem sourcing Brembo's, why don't you source some alternative calipers off the rear of a large streetbike that is sold in Egypt?

[RollingCamel]

Hmm....I wonder what is your budget Abd Elrahman?

Even if you are going to import, there are cheaper alternatives than Brembo.

[Abdel-rahman]

lookin for alternatives right now actually , but nothin will be like Brembo .

wat about my other question ?!

Abdel-rahman
Helwan universuity ,Egypt
brakes team

[RollingCamel]

If any other caliper does the job and at lower cost then it is a better choice.

As for the heat and cooling cycles it depends on the track.
Make your assumptions.

[Abdel-rahman]

i already made my assumptions , as i said repeated brake application , anyway thnx http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[sbrenaman]

You're right, nothing will be quite like Brembo calipers. I can't believe I even implied that you could use an obviously sub-standard unit from Nissin, Akebono, AP Racing, or Alcon.

Here is something that will work for 13" wheels http://www.apracing.com/calipe...jpg%22/%3E_2957_2611 (http://www.apracing.com/calipers/products.asp?product=Formula+Car+Caliper+Range-+4+Piston+-+13in+Wheel+-+Radi-Cal+-+CP5567%3Cbr%3E%3Cimg+border%3D%222%22+src%3D%22ht tp://www.apracing.com/pics/productpics/CP5567_4.jpg%22/%3E_2957_2611) and it says its for Formula cars.
That one has a high piston area, which will make it really easy to lock your brakes.
Here are the rotors to go with those: http://www.apracing.com/info/p...80-814/815_2077_2069 (http://www.apracing.com/info/products.asp?product=25.4mm+Thick-176.8mm+P.C.D.+-+Floating+-+CP3580-814/815_2077_2069)
Those are pretty good too, they're floating.

[sbrenaman]

Awesome post, pending moderation. Crossing my fingers http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Adambomb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RollingCamel:
If any other caliper does the job and at lower cost then it is a better choice.

As for the heat and cooling cycles it depends on the track.
Make your assumptions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

I'm not quite sure why there are people who absolutely positively insists on Brembos...I mean, they're good, but in the end they are still simply hydraulic cylinders that package brake pads. And I wouldn't even go so far as to say they're the "best" either.

And motorcycle calipers would be a million times better than passenger car calipers. Unless somehow your car weighs over 400 kg (which would be a feat in itself), the smallest passenger car calipers would still be several times larger (and heavier) than what you need. It would be so heavy that just mounting the thing would be a problem. In fact, the pistons would be so large you would probably also need a passenger car master cylinder to deliver enough fluid.

If you're a first year team with extra importing challenges it would be much more important to find ANY reasonably sized calipers. I hear people complaining on here about Wilwood PS-1s, but in most FSAE applications a PS-1 would be the best engineered component in the entire braking system. I've seen a lot of awful stuff in FSAE cars. And beyond that, in my experience it is surprisingly hard (at least harder than it should be) to find people on FSAE teams that know how to properly route lines, flare tubes, bleed the system or bed the pads. Then when their brakes don't work they just blame the poor calipers. All I can say is we got 7th in Detroit with PS-1s, and the brakes weren't our weak link. In fact, we're still using them 4 years later.

[Adambomb]

Ooh yeah, and for cooling, don't worry about it for your first car. For an FSAE application unless you're trying pretty hard to lighten the rotors as much as possible they likely won't get too hot. Just make them big enough to make the system "work" and fit the pads, maybe add a few simple holes, and you should be good to go. IMO the only good way to do any sort of thermal braking analysis requires some sort of track test data...which of course first necessitates a running car. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Abdel-rahman]

thnx adambomb , as for the calipers we found them used but they are okay and much more cheaper than those on the internet , and for the cooling i guess i don't need track test data i can assume it has no grade and for the rest of info it's all dependin on the disc material and car weight , it's just very complicated equations ,well as in "limpart- brake and design second edition book " ... i though also it wont get hot for god sake the car max speed 110 km/hr and we are using racing discs http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , but i just have to do the equations -.- .