Formula Student UK 2009, Silverstone: Updates, pictures... the usual [Archive]

Michael Royce

07-18-2009, 01:53 PM

The provisional run order for the 2009 Formula Student Endurance Event is as follows.

Run order is provisional and may be changed. This will be dependent on the weather

Run order for Endurance AM 9:00 am

Start Order Car # University Sprint Time
1 1 Universität Stuttgart 51.78
2 31 TU München 53.26
3 96 Westsächsische Hochschule Zwickau 53.68
4 231 TU München 53.91
5 8 ETH Zürich 54.14
6 2 TU Delft 54.17
7 25 Berufsakademie Ravensburg 54.2
8 53 Graz University of Technology 54.53
9 49 University of Applied Sciences Munich 54.62
10 63 University of Hertfordshire 54.83
11 94 University of Applied Sciences Esslingen 55.14
12 5 Helsinki Metropolia University of Applied Sciences 55.2
13 4 University of Bath 55.32
14 12 Loughborough University 55.54
15 100 Oxford Brookes University 55.79
16 7 University of Karlsruhe (TH) 56.41
17 42 RWTH Aachen University 57.13
18 15 University of Strathclyde 57.25
19 40 Eindhoven University of Technology 57.38
20 55 University of Applied Sciences Kiel 57.38
21 6 Swansea Metropolitan 57.44
22 222 Polytechnic Institute of Leiria 58.1
23 3 UAS Graz 58.3
24 77 University of Leeds 58.32
25 89 Aston University 58.43
26 9 Universita di Modena e Reggio Emilia 58.49
27 21 Queen's University Belfast 58.65
28 211 Queen's University Belfast 58.8
29 76 TU Bergakademie Freiberg 59.01
30 41 Technical University Vienna 59.02
31 29 Chalmers University of Technology 59.2
32 123 University of Central Lancashire 59.2
33 59 Swansea University 59.23

Approx 12:30
All Class 1A cars run together
34 500 University of Hertfordshire 58.63
35 525 ETH Zürich 59.05
36 567 University of Central Lancashire 63.49
37 523 Oxford Brookes University 70.67
38 507 Universidad Politécnica de Madrid
39 555 Imperial College London

Run Order for Endurance, Approx 13.00

40 74 University Erlangen-Nuremberg 59.29
41 43 Brunel University 59.55
42 154 Karlstad University 59.86
43 65 Fachhochschule Wiesbaden 60.17
44 107 TU Darmstadt 60.41
45 10 University of Applied Sciences Amberg-Weiden 60.46
46 17 Lancaster University 61.98
47 23 Ryerson University 62.02
48 62 UAS Regensburg 62.38
49 61 TU Braunschweig 62.49
50 88 Coventry University 62.98
51 20 University of Surrey 63.15
52 232 Newcastle University 64
53 71 University of Aberdeen 64.14
54 11 Lund University 64.5
55 288 Coventry University 65.62
56 58 Institut Supérieur de l'Automobile et des Transports 66.02
57 167 UAS Coburg 66.17
58 51 University of Birmingham 66.67
59 108 University of Liverpool 66.86
60 161 Manchester Metropolitan University 67.27
61 44 University of Southern Denmark 68.1
62 32 Universidad Politécnica de Madrid 70.32
63 177 University of Dundee 70.95
64 209 Instituto Superior de Engenharia de Coimbra 71.09
65 19 University of Manchester 71.64
66 50 University of Warwick 72.47
67 84 TU Dresden 72.6
68 52 UAS Saarbrücken 72.9
69 69 University of Huddersfield 76.03
70 60 UAS Cologne 78.12
71 67 UAS Osnabrück 83.35
72 81 Indian Institute of Technology, Delhi 108.21

Approx 16:00
All other cars will be free to run after all the above cars

Cakemaker

07-18-2009, 02:02 PM

What about acceleration updates etc.? Very curious here!

Calum Douglas

07-18-2009, 02:51 PM

Best thing I`ve seen all weekend was Fredrick Larsson and Martyn at Brookes smashing the pitstop challenge tyrechange with only two instead of the usual three people!

(might have had something to do with Fred`s several years in DTM http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Calum

HenningO

07-18-2009, 03:26 PM

Unofficial top 10 teams without sprint results, no particular order.

Einhofen
TU Graz
UAS Graz
TU Delft
Stuttgart
Bath
Karlsruhe
TU Munich
Vienna

This thread really needs some more action.

DART-CG, I wish I was there as well, first time since 2004 I'm not there!

Jimmy01

07-18-2009, 04:50 PM

Yea, definitely needs some more action! I would be keen to see more photos of the cars, anyone got links to galleries? (Other than the pics from FStotal here (http://fstotal.com/pics/category/24-2009)
I have managed to decifer from Stuttgart's twitter page a few of the results. Apparently the winning acceleraion time was 3.76 seconds! Was it stupidly hot there, a problem with timing or the track, or are the cars just that fast!?

Barnaby

07-18-2009, 07:15 PM

Racecar Engineering has a gallery, but the format is somewhat annoying

http://www.racecar-engineering...la-student-2009.html (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/articlesgallery/13354/1/0/formula-student-2009.html) http://www.racecar-engineering...la-student-2009.html (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/cars/383492/teams-gear-up-for-formula-student-2009.html)

Crispy

07-18-2009, 08:38 PM

There is video up of the Silverstone dynamic events.

http://www.playitback.org/details.aspx?v=184

It looks to me like the accel run is short. The course extends almost exactly 4 grid spots. Videos from previous years event show the course covering almost 5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9HXrWDS2nI

Is the grid consistent? Did something change from last year?

estimate 7 m error at 32.5 m/s
8 m / (32.5 m/s)= 0.22 s

Drew Price

07-19-2009, 01:21 AM

<STRIKE>Is this cork IA from one of those wine swilling French teams?</STRIKE>

Just found out this gorgeous car is from ISEC, in Portugal! Sorry!

Poisson's ratio = 0 means a creative application.

http://fstotal.com/images/phocagallery/FS/2009/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_IMG_8255.JPG

Best,
Drew

FStotal.com

07-19-2009, 09:47 AM

you can find first results here: http://www.formulastudent.com/events/2009+Results.htm

Cakemaker

07-19-2009, 01:04 PM

Maybe they got the metrics all wrong? feet vs. metres? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I was also quite baffled. Well...we'll know who won in a bit I guess...

Cakemaker

07-19-2009, 01:13 PM

Double checked the acc. again. On the PDF results of the formulastudent website, it "clearly" says 68,7 metres (top left corner). I have no idea why. I know the rules say 75 m (82 yards)...

Fyhr

07-19-2009, 01:20 PM

Oh the Silverstone straight probably isn't long enough for some of the faster cars to brake if they run the full 75m http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The AFX Master

07-19-2009, 02:01 PM

Or they measured 75 YARDS!!!!

Cakemaker

07-19-2009, 02:05 PM

I guessed they did. NOthing to be done about that one.

Oh well the numbers look more impressive now http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cakemaker

07-19-2009, 02:54 PM

What is going on in the UK? Everything should be finished now right? The party started and teams celebrating???

Cakemaker

07-19-2009, 03:08 PM

Congrats to Stuttgart I guess.

Nice one and re-match at Germany http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cakemaker

07-19-2009, 03:44 PM

Stuttgart 1

Delft 2

Zurich 3

Bath 4

Helsinki 5

inamo

07-19-2009, 04:27 PM

Congrats to all the teams.

Here's a link to my photos from Saturday http://helenjackson.smugmug.co...eWF6#595361654_ypAVh (http://helenjackson.smugmug.com/gallery/8960876_deWF6#595361654_ypAVh) enjoy, share them with friends, but please don't remove the watermarks, if you want high res versions without watermarks drop me a PM

inamo

07-19-2009, 04:30 PM

Ok attempt 2 at posting!

Congrats to all the teams, here are my pics from Saturday, enjoy and feel free to share the link with friends - please leave the watermarks in place or PM me for high res versions.

http://helenjackson.smugmug.co...eWF6#595361654_ypAVh (http://helenjackson.smugmug.com/gallery/8960876_deWF6#595361654_ypAVh)

inamo

07-19-2009, 04:34 PM

Some pictures to come from me - apparently post needs to be approved by a moderator - not sure why!

Well done everyone, roll on next year!

inamo

07-20-2009, 12:52 AM

Attempt 3... Hopefully this will work. Go to sports, then motor sport and scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Website (http://helenjackson.smugmug.com)

TMichaels

07-20-2009, 03:54 AM

75 Yards = 68,58m
I love SI Units.

As far as I heard it was only 4 Points between Delft and Stuttgart.

Regards,

Tobi

Red Mist Racing

07-20-2009, 05:44 AM

Congratulations to Stuttgart! A class act. Well done again!

Also congratulations to Thpar University for getting through the brake test and then completing the endurance!!

Great weekend

Mike Hart

07-20-2009, 06:03 AM

Congratulations to everyone. Was great to be there again, although sadly not as a competitor this year. Many, many thanks to TUFast for the Augustiner. Great to see a few familiar faces again too and I look forward to next years comp. Judging was really interesting, and hopefully I'll get a chance to go to FSG next year too.

Special mention to Zwickau. Great car and well done on the top 10 finish. Best of luck at FSG and hopefully see you again next year.

C.Bradley

07-20-2009, 02:48 PM

As the first competition I've attended as a spectator, it was really interesting to be able to wander the pits and talk to several teams about their cars without the pressure of working/managing a car myself.

There were some really high quality competitors again this year and with the "changeable" weather on Sunday some interesting shake-ups all through the order.

For those that wern't able to make it the fast cars were sent out early based on the forecast, so Stuttgart led the field as the track got progressively wetter. They were followed by TU Munich who suffered an engine failure depositing oil all over the track.

This really hampered the times early on with the rain coming in short, heavy bursts changing the times up to 4 or 5 seconds lap to lap at times. Later on much heavier rain arrived finally clearing the oil allowing the late teams in the first session (particularly Swansea Met) to put down really good times.

The mixed weather continued with teams getting some luck with the conditions setting very fast times.

I don't think I've attended a competition in the last few years where such a change around in times between the sprint and endurance has occured. Take nothing away from the teams that were able to capitalise on the conditions at no point was the track ever dry.

Fortunately the conditions didn't skew the overall result so my congratulations to Stuttgart, who again have brought a well-built quick car and will be tough to beat in Germany.

Thrainer

07-21-2009, 07:59 AM

Hi there,

this was an amazing competition and the large number of teams finishing endurance showed that it was not just a pre-event despite the financial crisis and all. I was enjoying the competing for points, the great helpfulness between teams and the large interest in our car.

On the orther hand, I would like to sqash the rumours of us intentionally not starting in the morning session for endurance.
At nine o'clock, we were waiting in the queue on slicks and when the track was declared "wet", started to change wheels. It appears that there was some dirt or metal shavings on the front right hub, thus the wheel nut jammed and broke the thread.
We had to slice through the wheel nut to take the wheel off and turned down the broken threads with the help of the Delft Truck. Luckily, there were still enough threads left to hold the wheel and we had a replacement nut.
After the repair and some rescrutineering, we started in the afternoon session and collected 120 seconds of penalty. There was still oil on the track and it was raining for the most part, but we were almost able to make up for the penalty and came second.

I'm looking forward to competing in FSG and hope we can show some improvement there.

Thomas
AMZ - ETH Zurich

James Morris

07-21-2009, 02:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This really hampered the times early on with the rain coming in short, heavy bursts changing the times up to 4 or 5 seconds lap to lap at times. Later on much heavier rain arrived finally clearing the oil allowing the late teams in the first session (particularly Swansea Met) to put down really good times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that you have Swansea Uni and Swansea Metropolitan Uni mixed up there! As the track condition were still shite when we were out(Swansea uni blue, Swansea met black and red).

The rain and oil really messed up our Enduro/fuel strategy so we were happy to finish the enduro in 9th place.

James Morris

SMU Racing

Thrainer

07-21-2009, 04:00 PM

Here are some pictures, mostly of the dynamic events: http://www.amzracing.ch/amz/ga...il.ort?folder_id=765 (http://www.amzracing.ch/amz/galleryDetail.ort?folder_id=765)

Not sure if the brake disc is glowing or if it's just a reflection from the orange jacking point.

http://www.amzracing.ch/amz/files/amz1150.jpg

smb96

07-21-2009, 05:17 PM

Congratulations to everyone and thanks for all the congratulations.
First of all i think it was a quite good competition, mainly because the teams seemd to be be better prepared than last year. In my eyes there was a big gain.
This was my 12th competition as a active member and an endurance like that is unique. First thing, i never saw a endurance with almost the whole time wet condition and second none with water plus lots of oil on the track. That messed up all times. After the endurance our whole car was black from oil. I would say the difference is similar to wet and dry running. We had no water with oil setup, Zwickau looked like they had one http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
The running order was like the autox results. So we started around 9:00. Second was TU München. Unfortunately their well developed engine did not sound good since the start. A short time later it blew all oil on the track. I am very sorry for them, they repaired the engine two nights in a row and did a very good tested car. The main problem was that the marshals did not stop the car. It stopped after ca 1.5 laps burning and the team had to run to their car and extinguish it. Also a lot of different things went wrong with the marshals. Every year the same... I know they are volunteers but maybe it would be better to use some alumnis from teams for that job.
The result was that all top teams from autox had terrible conditions and the track very slippery for a long time. At that point i did not belive anymore that we could win overall. I thought AMZ (Zürich) would do it and actually i was quite comfortable with that thought, i really like the guys. Especially if you know under which circumstances they built that great car. Thomas already wrote what happened to them, so luck while bad luck. With the 120 point penalty for the slot it was not enough for the win for them. At that point Delft and we came back to the game. All other teams where to far behind delft and us. Of course the fuel economy was the secret here. 1.8l for them and 2.7l for us means ca. 40 points, a lot... And here we come to the weirdst thing at that competion for me, you could say Delft became second because Aberdeen won fuel! They used 100ml less than Delft, but that means 15 points! 100 points for fuel? Yes why not! But that formula is just crazy!
At the end i think everything was about luck and bad luck. There are just 5 points between Delft an us.
Overall i liked the competition very much. The spirit at the pits and in the evenings was great and it was exciting until the end.
My personal draw backs of the competition are the marshals and the design. At US, FSG and FSAE Aus. it is much more about engineering, i will never understand the design at formula student UK.

Now i look forward to FSG and i hope we can give the guys from UWA, Delft, Graz, Zürich, RIT and RMIT a good race. That will be the toughst competition since FSAE 2008!

Tommy

Red Mist Racing

07-22-2009, 01:11 AM

Sure the conditions talk will go on and on, but it was still raining when we went out and was one of the wettest points of the day.

We were out at the same time as Vienna and went 59 seconds quicker than them. Our sprint run was poor but the car is much more suited to wet conditions.

07-22-2009, 02:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Red Mist Racing:
Sure the conditions talk will go on and on, but it was still raining when we went out and was one of the wettest points of the day.

We were out at the same time as Vienna and went 59 seconds quicker than them. Our sprint run was poor but the car is much more suited to wet conditions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't want to take anything away from Swansea, they did a very good job in tricky conditions. But I have to agree with Tommy, the oil from the Munich car messed up the whole endurance. You should have seen the stuff that was on our tyres! When the endurance started it was already raining hard (and the track declared wet), but Stuttgart managed a couple of laps around 1 min. Right after the Munich engine failure that pace dropped by 15 seconds in the next lap!! Coincidence?? We even advised our second driver to take the slaloms the "wrong" way so at least in the slalom he wouldn't encounter the oil. And that was indeed a lot faster.
Why the marshals didn't stop the Munich car after the huge amount of smoke started to come out of the engine, or stop the race to clean up the track a bit, I'll never know. It seems to me that the top teams cars spinning in very slow corners, barely making it trough the slaloms and sliding all over the place, should have been a good hint. But they must have known there was oil on the track, because they put out the oil flag (which was not briefed in the morning btw). Well, that's FSUK for you....

All that said, I still think the best team won the competition, although the results of the endurance look very strange. Come on Tim, do you really think that under the same conditions you would gain almost 2 minutes on Stuttgart? (you should look at the pure racetime). I really have my doubts.

My last point is that in my opinion it was indeed the rain that caused more teams to finish enduro. Less grip, lower forces on suspension, (one of the biggest causes for DNF's), better cooling of the engine, well you get the point. The conditions were very tricky and changing all the time, so every team that managed to stay on track (well, most of the time), did a hell of a job. And yes, you need a bit of luck in motorsport.

cheers,

Miki Hegedus
Delft University of Technology 2001-2008

Red Mist Racing

07-22-2009, 03:50 AM

I don't think had the conditions been the same for everyone we would have won the endurance no.. not even for a minute. that would have been stuggart of you guys at delft. I am fully aware there were quicker cars out there, who's enduro was destroyed by the oil.

But I just wanted to say that I know our sprint pace didn't show what we were capable of (in some ways this was good as it led to our starting slot). The track conditions were still not good for us during the enduro, it was very wet and still the oil caused us problems.
Just some of the comments sound like we were racing on a dry track, far from the case.

Craig Dawson

07-22-2009, 04:53 AM

Guy's, I think you are being a little harsh in several ways. The marshals always have a very hard job too do and personally I dont think Alumini would do any better.

The second point, I know of no way of clearing oil from a wet track, other than a jet wash! If running had been stopped not all teams would have been able to complete endurance. That isnt fair. The Munich driver must have known what was going on, he could have pulled off. In all SAE competitions Black flags for mecanical failures are issued at the start finish line. Had the car made it there it would have been black flagged.

Finally, the time drop off was only around 5 seconds, not 15. Having inspected the track at lunchtime it was still covered in oil. I think conditions remained fairly constant for all, with the exception of a couple of teams.

RenM

07-22-2009, 05:38 AM

our times dropped from 59 to 1.09

the marshals should have pulled out Munich and graz much earlier. munich was smoking for half a lap and they didnt pull them out.

It is not the drivers fault. He only realizes something is wrong with the powertrain, but every driver will continue untill the car is not running anymore at all.

Bemo

07-22-2009, 05:44 AM

I think everbody appreciates that the marshalls spend their time for FS. But compared to other competitions the marshalls in England don't do their job very well.
Blue flags were shown to late very often. Delft and us each had to drive half a lap behind a much slower car although there was almost no gap at the overtaking point before.
Freiberg lost half a minute because a marshal forgot to show them the green flag when they were standing in the overtaking zone.
Our second driver almost hit a marshall who put back a cone without watching for cars!
I don't know what the problem in UK is, but I had the impression that the marshalls weren't aware about what can happen (if a smoking car stops they should at least watch if it's burning).
There were a couple of incidents which were really dangerous in my opinion and something has to be done about that.

I talked to a lot of guys from other teams and everybody agreed with that. The organizers should take that as a feedback and think about what they can do. Nobody wants to attack somebody, I'm just trying to give a feedback how a great event could be improved.

DART-CG

07-22-2009, 07:22 AM

@RenM: That's absolutely right. A driver will carry on till the bitter end.

To the oil problems itself: I think you can't blaim the marshalls. Time is too short to make the right decisions in such a moment altough our team was struck hard last year. I sadly remember FSG08 where some "oily" decision against our team hampered us from eventually finishing second behind Stuttgart (when then even retired in a tragic and undeserved manner).
My fast lap was red-flagged in autocross and the marshalls send me back to pits by incident through an oil leak of an engine failure a few minutes ago. Every grip was gone with that the hopes of defending the autocross victory.
In the race it was even harder when Turin had an engine failure in front of us and my teamate spun off twice with offtracks before an oil flag came out. We than had to finish the endurance with oil all over the track, nearly losing 15 seconds per lap. After we finished endurance the track was closed on cleaned for the following teams.
Hard decision for the judges but what are they supposed to do? I think that's racing.

Thomas MuWe

07-22-2009, 07:33 AM

I think you are allowed to complain about the circumstances, but you have to accept the circumstances and conditions. (I learned it from FSAE Michigan this year) So “we would have been the fastest” (without rain, oil or a mechanical failure) is nice to say because you then know that you could have performed well.
Maybe Swansea or Zürich had better conditions than the top of the sprinters but what is wrong with that. I cannot rate it because I was not there.
But: You have to take the chance and use the better conditions to your advantage.
That Stuttgart is the performance benchmark is clear and I know even the Delft guys agree with that. So it is as it is.
From the reports of our successors it must had been a great event. So I am a little bit sad that I was not there.
Congrats to Stuttgart for taking home the big one (again). Also congrats to Delft for winning design and taking home the second big one and Zürich for their first top three finish.
The first six places are similar to last year – except Zürich substitutes us and Brunel substitutes Swansea at sixth – strange.
I wish all the team a lot of fun preparing their cars for FSG and FSA.
See you there.

Thomas

Suspension jr08 / jr08evo
joanneum racing graz

HoggyN

07-22-2009, 12:14 PM

The FSUK marshals seem to be coming in for a bit of flak. I watched the endurance from the relatively dry grandstand. Yes, the marshals were a bit slow with the flags at times, but then they had been standing outside enduring the monsoon conditions for several hours. They must have been soaked to the skin. I'm not surprised that they were a bit slow to react at times. They should be congratuated for their devotion to duty. I'd have probably gone home after half an hour in that rain.

I actually enjoyed watching the cars skidding all over the place. After a couple of laps the drivers got used to it. Then came the driver change and the fun started all over again. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As to the daft score by Aberdeen (sorry guys), I think the rules are going to be changed next year to try and stop the disproportionate scoring for fuel economy.

Bemo

07-22-2009, 12:23 PM

Of course it wasn't fun for them to stand in the rain all day.
What I'm trying to say is that there were several incidents which were really dangerous. The officials tell us all the time that safety has to be first. So it must be allowed to say it, if you see something which isn't safe.

I don't blame anybody for the conditions we were driving at. On a rainy day it is impossible to give everybody the possibility to run under the same conditions and also oil is a problem we'll always have.

Dave Evans

07-22-2009, 03:34 PM

This was my first FS competition helping out rather than being a student, so I got a pretty good mix how the event was run overall. Ended up doing Scrutineering, Design and track stuff.

I agree mostly with Bemo, there were some serious flaws in marshal attention during the event. They still did a great job overall, but there were a few instances that really got me annoyed. I doubt you’d ever get enough dedicated volunteers that would put up with the weather without moaning like these marshals do. They just need that extra bit of awareness (or even somebody managing them better on radio).

I was out on track for the most part of the endurance cone counting (but not marshaling), and it pissed me and the other two marshals off with me when we saw a team get blue flagged late, and even then the blue flagged car getting forgotten about and not given a green flag. This was both dangerous and bad for the team stuck in the overtaking lane. I personally felt my post did a pretty good job, we always had a green flag at the ready for overtaking, but the marshal after the first overtaking lane past the start line really missed too many.

In terms of who / when to make the call on stopping cars that may blow up and drop oil on the track, it's a very difficult decision, but it should come quickly and as faily as possible, as the risk is, you could disappoint one team by bringing them in for the chance they may drop oil, or, you leave them out and disappoint four other teams that are running on track and lose them all time.

It was a very wet day, and I know I only got about 20min of time indoors, the rest of the day I was standing on track supporting the endurance. Will be doing it next year, and I do hope the IMechE take on some of the suggestions that come to them (I'm writing a small essay of stuff I'd change to them currently!)

Well done to Aberdeen with a great simple first year attempt!

I will be at FSG helping with scrutineering, so may bump in to a few of you again.

HoggyN

07-22-2009, 03:54 PM

From where I was sitting I couldn't see the first overtaking lane so I probably missed most of the marshalling cock ups.

Just to be clear, I think Aberdeen did a great job with their first entry. I just think the current economy scoring system could be fairer.

JVC

07-23-2009, 03:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TMichaels:
75 Yards = 68,58m
I love SI Units.

As far as I heard it was only 4 Points between Delft and Stuttgart.

Regards,

Tobi </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, let's be happy 75m wasn't interpreted as 75 miles...

Still, it has been a very nice event, with a real competition between the top-end teams.

Here (http://files.me.com/julienvancampen/zatpk0) you can find some of the pictures I took during the event, feel free to use them, but please mention my name if you do so. And apologies for the file-size, in time I will make a nice web album out of it.

See you all at Hockenheim,
Cheers,

Julien

JVC

07-23-2009, 03:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TMichaels:
75 Yards = 68,58m
I love SI Units.

As far as I heard it was only 4 Points between Delft and Stuttgart.

Regards,

Tobi </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, let's be happy they didn't interpret 75m as being 75 miles....

Still, it has been a very nice event, with a very strong competition between the top-end teams, there is a big promise for FSG there!

Here (http://files.me.com/julienvancampen/zatpk0) are some pictures I took during the event. Feel free to use them, but please mention my name if you do so.

For those of you going to FSG, see you at Hockenheim,
Cheers,

Julien

DngDong123

07-23-2009, 04:47 AM

Firstly, thanks to all the teams for making us feel so welcome as a first year team. Special thanks to the teams who donated the M14 (!!!) washers we needed to progress through scrutineering. We had a fantastic time, and look forward to coming back next year.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HoggyN:
Just to be clear, I think Aberdeen did a great job with their first entry. I just think the current economy scoring system could be fairer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realise this is a dig at the rules not us (Aberdeen), but I don't quite see how it can be fairer? We used less fuel than anyone else therefore we won the fuel economy event.

We got a solid albeit not record breaking endurance time, when the track was at its wettest (before the red flag) driving through what can only be described as a swimming pool. Still we brought in respectable lap times and were 6th overall in Endurance. Well done to all the teams, the weather and oil situation made it difficult to be in control and make good lap times and had it been dry then the story would be completely different.

Fuel economy is being encouraged, due to the global interest in being "green". I very much doubt that this will be significantly changed for future events, especially if the organisers want funding and sponsorship for the event.

See you all again next year, we will be there with an improved car but still trying to employ a simple design incorporating a road sign somewhere! What's racing without some fun?

GusABDN

07-23-2009, 07:51 AM

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone who helped us (Aberdeen) out over the weekend, its a very daunting experience being a first year team, and any advise is greatly appreciated.

Yes, I think the scoring of the fuel economy is hard to believe, but perfectly fair. Motorsport often throws up odd results, and thats the nature of the game.

Well done to all the teams who finished the endurance, the conditions were demanding on both car and driver. I can't wait until FS2010, unfortunatly only acting as a spectator. But I'll make a point of visiting everyone I met this year. Also keep an eye out for next years teams novel use of a road sign http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Angus Ross

flavorPacket

07-23-2009, 10:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DngDong123:
I realise this is a dig at the rules not us (Aberdeen), but I don't quite see how it can be fairer? We used less fuel than anyone else therefore we won the fuel economy event. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because teams could gain more points by driving slower and thus using less fuel. This goes against the concept of racing. The FSG system of adjusting fuel economy according to elapsed time is much fairer IMO.

Bemo

07-23-2009, 11:29 AM

On the other hand you could say, that if you drive very slow to save fuel you still lose points overall.
In fact in Germany you get points for your lap times twice so in fact it is just a different weighing of fuel, not fairer or unfairer.

Andy Tomlin

07-27-2009, 04:35 AM

Good point, maybe we should just look at the highest combined Economy/Endurance result from FSUK...? :P

Andy Tomlin
Brunel University

blister

07-27-2009, 08:51 AM

The only problem with the FSG rules is, that i doesn`t take into account the track conditions.

So with just driving under better conditions (say 10 seconds per lap) you can score much better in fuel, while in the UK you will score less, just because you use more throttle (= energy) in better (=dry) conditions

But all in all i prefer the FSG rule

Donna

07-27-2009, 04:39 PM

Pipe down Tomlin :P

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flavorPacket:
Because teams could gain more points by driving slower and thus using less fuel. This goes against the concept of racing. The FSG system of adjusting fuel economy according to elapsed time is much fairer IMO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you'd gain more points in the fuel economy section, but lose points for endurance. Given their weighting, I know which event I'd rather do better in! The weather/track conditions certainly made for some interesting results http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

flavorPacket

07-28-2009, 08:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Donna:
Yes, you'd gain more points in the fuel economy section, but lose points for endurance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how many more would you gain? How many would you lose? It is possible to have a net gain for driving slower.

Bemo

07-29-2009, 12:52 AM

Of course you can drive slower to save fuel. The question is how much fuel you have to save if you are driving a second per lap slower for example. In Hockenheim you have to save more than at the other events if you want to gain overall points.

Donna

07-29-2009, 01:50 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flavorPacket:
And how many more would you gain? How many would you lose? It is possible to have a net gain for driving slower. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Possible, but I don't think it's that likely. Not to mention it'd be impossible to work out your optimum points gain as you can't tell how other universities are going to perform.

Then again, driving slowly worked for us, so there's definitely something to be gained from it.

JVC

07-29-2009, 04:47 AM

Another option would be to get all the cars on a rolling road, let them 'drive' exactly the same stretch and then compare how energy efficient they are. Still I guess the German system is preferable. However that is not the reason I'm writing this. I finally got round to put some of my pictures in a web album (http://gallery.me.com/julienvancampen#100101), so they are slightly easier to access. Feel free to download and use the pictures, but please mention the source if you choose to use them. Thank you :-)

Cheers,
Julien

Bazanaius

07-29-2009, 06:58 AM

This was our team's first time at the UK competition, and we had an awesome time - it was great to see so many UK teams, as normally there are just a few over at the German competition.

As always the support and interest that all the teams showed to each other was the best bit of the competition by miles - it is always amazing how throughout the year we're all so keen (rightly) to keep costs down and only get what we need, then when competition comes around it's a case of 'screw it lets just get these guys out on track' and everyone starts giving stuff away. I know it has helped us out many times - so thank you to everyone who has been there. hopefully we've equalled out the karma whenever possible.

My one criticism of this years competition is the time that it took the scrutineering to complete. I understand that there are limited facilities in which to scrutineer, however I think that this should lead to a consideration of whether 100+ teams is feasible. Bigger yes, but better? We were ready to scrutineer at 3pm on Thursday, and eventually got in to scrutineer at 10am the following day (even then we jumped 10 places in the queue because other teams hadnt got there early enough).

Whilst I'm not defending the lack of foresight and design on our part that lead to our plenum failing, I can't help but feel that passing scrutineering on the Thursday would have given us an extra 24 hours to fix the problem, and would have seen us enter the dynamic events on Saturday.

Other than this we had a great time and regarding marshalls - every single one we spoke to (possibly with one exception) was friendly, helpful and genuinely interested in what we were up to. I can't really comment on flag behaviour as I was too busy laughing at the lack of grip we had to notice :-)

smb96

07-29-2009, 03:43 PM

Hey Julian,

thank you for the great pictures! I love especially the fisheye stuff.

Tommy

Dan A

08-02-2009, 03:55 AM

I've read all the posts prior to this, and I feel that I have to say something about them.

This whole thing about the fuel economy is a bit silly. We had the smallest engine in class 1, which generally equals greater fuel efficiency. Everyone could run a 300cc next year and beat our efficiency but then we would have most likely beaten you on the endurance, so it's just a case of how many points you are willing to trade off on. We weren't running slower than foot to the floor through the whole endurance as our final position of 6th will give testament to. At no point did we think that we should back off to conserve fuel, we wanted to finish and finish well which I would like to think that we did.

For my last rant I would just like to say how ridiculous the issues with the fuel scoring are - it's judged the exact same way as everything else! If someone had been 10 minutes faster at the endurance than the next team you would expect the points gap to reflect it wouldn't you?

Anyway, I just want to finish by saying thank you to Delft and Stuttgart in particular for making us feel welcome, but also to all those who gave us a chance.

08-02-2009, 04:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan A:
We had the smallest engine in class 1, which generally equals greater fuel efficiency.

We weren't running slower than foot to the floor through the whole endurance as our final position of 6th will give testament to. At no point did we think that we should back off to conserve fuel, we wanted to finish and finish well which I would like to think that we did.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With all due respect, this goes back to the point that fuel economy should maybe be linked to laptime. I think you'd admit that the conditions helped offset your power handicap and thus you achieved both a good time and good fuel economy.
The FSG system would at least take track conditions into account via your laptimes

Dan A

08-03-2009, 01:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blister:
The only problem with the FSG rules is, that i doesn`t take into account the track conditions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> But then I can't think of a motorsport that does really since you are all racing on the same track in the same conditions. Why should teams that have smaller engines and greater fuel economy be given a larger handicap by counting the track times twice? Do they do this in any motorsport?

I will completely agree with you that the weather helped our power deficit and that we might have been doing a rain dance in the pit before the race, but we were still putting in lap times similar to the top teams in the wet (hence why we came 6th) and so surely under the FSG rules we would have gotten even more points for it?