Motorsport is dangerous – Darmstadts inferno and tremendous safety issues at FS Italy

[DART-CG]

You can read it on most of the team member passes and the FS ATA competition dreadfully showed that it is true even in FSAE – Motorsport is dangerous!

The newly fire accident of our 2009 car is heavily discussed on various platforms. Beaneath the official statement on our homepage here’s my statement of what happened (as I was directly involved during the driver change) with some not yet seen pictures. This thread should also be used as a safety discussion to prevent something like that to happen again.

Perhaps many of you heard about our fire accident during testing before FSG09 where our car took fire during an endurance test.
As a long term driver for 4 years and involved in both incidents I am quite shocked that something like this can happen even to a well prepared car. We were able to rebuilt the heavily damaged car to take part in FSG.

In Italy we even were on the way to a certain top 5 finish when disaster struck again.
My teammate Marco entered the driver changing area after the first half of the endurance.
Engine specialist Jan and I were waiting ready to unstrap the seatbelts and to re-vacuum the seat. A few meters before reaching us the engine suddenly stalled. Having no time to think about what went wrong we wanted to continue our driver change procedure and leaned over the stopping car when the rear suddenly exploded in a huge fireball. The (petrol vapour) explosion was that intense that we were smacked back by the blast with Jan getting some burns to his hairs.
Marco was still strapped in the now completely and heavily burning car. Jan (with experience in the extinction of the first fire) immediately took off the fire extinguisher from the push bar and attacked the flames while I rushed to the cockpit and tried to help Marco to eject from the car. After a felt enternity he jumped out into safety while the delta was still buring intensely. Now, Eindhoven and both Karlsruhe teams rushed to our help and finally managed to stop the fire. THANK YOU SO MUCH AGAIN GUYS, THIS DEEP SHOULD HAVE ACHIEVED A SPECIAL AWARD ON THE CEREMONY, NOT SOME GIRLS!

Did something attract your attention? Yes right, where were the Italians??? No fire extinguishers at all, the officials even continued with the driver changes of other teams as nothing had happened only a few meters away. Only one fireman reached the scene about one minute later. 3 minutes later the official fire engine entered the scene when everything was already over.

But the worst of all: 50m away a medical car was placed which didn’t even do anything! Marco, Jan and I were on physical shock. We swallowed extinguisher powder (which was quite painful while breathing) and Jan had the mentioned burnt hair. Only a girl from our team studying medicine supplied us with first aid.
What are they waiting for? To collect body parts? And even that is only allowed by a doctors permission…

With one week gone since the incident I still can’t believe that something like that can happen twice a year on the same car. And what provokes me the most thoughtful is the cause of the incident and some overall safety issues in the series.

I don't want to take the blame us in any way. All in all, it was our fault.
But in both cases we didn’t have any harsh design or safety errors. We had a sealing failing during driving on the intake system the first time allowing fuel to gas out and ignite. The second time a Loctite fastened screw loosened on the intake system and allowed fuel to leak out which gathered in the rear monocoque. I saw much worse design flaws in the last years on many cars which hopefully didn’t end up in a disaster like here.

In my opinion we need some rule changes to prevent that those incidents from happening again. Actively and passively… I have 3 overall suggestions on my mind and I would like you to some others so we can discuss them with the officials to procure a change of rules.

1. NEW DRIVER CLOTHING RULE: Every driver has to wear his full safety equipment INCLUDING FIRE RESISTANT UNDERWEAR AND SOCKS. This should be checked during competitions on every single driver before moving the car. In the last years I saw many drivers even from top teams only wearing a polyester shirt underneath their overall (even me on very hot test days) and no judge controlled it. This is nuts guys! Even wearing bike helmets during test drives is nuts! Gasoline fires will reach temperatures over 1000°C / 1800 F, this will melt these stuff onto your skin. But the worst of all: In videos from the Texas Autocross Event I saw people driving wearing ONLY shirts! No comment on that, only take a look at the following pictures and image the consequences.

2. NEW RULES FOR SECURING GASOLINE RELATED PARTS. All bolts and nuts which are used on the fuel suppling system should have a special type of securing like a bent metal sheet which prevents them from getting loose instead of only getting lost. This should also be rigorously checked during events.

3. ONBOARD FIRE EXTINGUISHER ON ALL CARS. Let’s be honest. Our engineering series is more prone to technical failures than other Formula Racing series. Nearly every series I know has to have an onboard fire extinguisher. Why not FSAE/Student? Our car was not the first that burnt, in know at least 5 other occasions. To put it straightforward: A crash nose on the cars is a cool engineering task to design but the real gain in safety is marginal in FSAE. Or do you know a crash where these noses were a gain in safety?

Please feel free to add some critizim are to make some new suggestions!

[Bemo]

I think at least your second suggestion is very important. Suspension bolts are strictly checked at all events but fuel related bolts aren't. That doesn't make any sense.

But in my opinion the major problem in this incident was the reaction of the officials, or should I say that there wasn't any reaction at all. These people weren't aware of what can happen.
This isn't only an Italian problem. When the Munich car stoped with a smoking engine during the UK competition the marshalls didn't care either. How can they know that there isn't anything burning?
The marshalls there also walked on the track to pick up thrown cones without watching for cars coming. Several times they were almost hit by cars.
The officials always tell teams that safety is the most important thing of the whole thing. Noboudy doubts that this is absolutely true. But in fact they don't behave like that.

Finally I'd like to add that during testing safety is up to the teams. That means that driver suits aren't just something you need for competitions. They are essential for driving. As Dart-CG already said, just imagine their driver would have worn only a normal shirt...

In the past I've also seen teams testing without fire extinguishers with them. Please think about what you would do in such a case. Besides all possible rule changes. There will always be a risk that cars start to burn and everybody must be aware of that fact.

[Thomas MuWe]

Clenn, I feel really sorry for your team.

And I hope that this incident will help to change the rules for better safety. I also hope that the organisers of any comp will be aware that this can happen and that the marshalls are prepared for such an accident.

I really think that in every team there are members which are not able to extinguish a fire properly. I was one of them before I had a lesson at the company I was working for. If you never had an incident with fire (which is a good thing) I think you cannot be able to use a fire extinguisher properly.

To your points:

1. This is very expansive for teams with low budget because they will need it twice. Nomax is not so cheap. As you said motorsport is dangerous and something like your accident can happen. We must live with that. The drivers should get information about what can happen.
And during test driving allowed is what the teams permit. So teams and especially drivers need to be aware of fire problems.

2. I totally agree with that.

3. I disagree. Why is our series more prone to technical failures? Not much "pro" motorsport teams put so much passion into their cars. How many real technical failure of student designed parts you see? I often see a problem with student assembled parts.

4. I think that the organisers have to think of such incidents and be prepared!

[Hector]

To put it straightforward: A crash nose on the cars is a cool engineering task to design but the real gain in safety is marginal in FSAE. Or do you know a crash where these noses were a gain in safety? This is something I've always agreed with. From a crash standpoint, these cars are severely overbuilt. Where do we test and drive these cars? At race tracks, in parking lots, or on skidpads. Usually, very far away from anything that you can hit. This is easy to enforce: don't drive at places with obstacles and you don't have to worry about hitting stuff. If you take that risk you're being dumb and it's your own fault.

Fire, on the other hand, seems to occur more often in FSAE, with (in my opinion) more damaging effects, while being harder to prevent than crashes. It scares me to see how little fire regulation there is. Whenever I see pictures of teams driving their cars in t-shirts and jeans, I yell "you F***ING retard!" at my computer every time.

I'd drive without a crush box any day of the week. You couldn't pay me enough to get into an FSAE car without full fire gear.

[woodstock]

I agree with the positive locking of fuel related components (although you won't be able to do that with actual fittings like JIC, just the stuff that holds the fuel rail on) and fire suits but I can't see much benefit of car mounted fire extinguishers.

If you put it in the cockpit the driver won't be able to reach it and if you put it outside you can't guarantee that the part of the car with the fire extinguisher won't be in flames.

The only way is to have team members with extinguishers at testing and marshals at comps.

[atm92484]

Glad to hear everyone is alright.

I've been a long time reader of this board and never bothered posting. The direction the competition took during my last year in school combined with incidents like this really bother me and not from a safety standpoint.

FSAE always made rules to keep participants safe and I can respect and appreciate that; without them I wouldn't be where I am today. However, there is a point where you need to exercise good engineering practice and common sense and not expect someone to hold your hand (after all, that is part of the learning process involved in this competition). Yes motorsports are not the safest hobby but if they made rules for everything in this competition, there would be no learning and you would be building a car from their blueprint.



I don't want to take the blame us in any way. All in all, it was our fault.
But in both cases we didn’t have any harsh design or safety errors. We had a sealing failing during driving on the intake system the first time allowing fuel to gas out and ignite. The second time a Loctite fastened screw loosened on the intake system and allowed fuel to leak out which gathered in the rear monocoque. I saw much worse design flaws in the last years on many cars which hopefully didn’t end up in a disaster like here.


I do not want to come off as a jerk but you had a fastener secured with threadlock in a blind hole and that fastener is all that kept fuel from leaking. You do not feel it was not bad design? If you tried that on any suspension component the FSAE tech inspectors would never have allowed the car to compete - what makes it acceptable for anything other critical components?

Chalk it up as a learning experience; no one got seriously injured and you now know what not to do and can incorporate it into the next excellent car.

[Hub]

Tks for the post, this remind us that suits and extinguishers are essential for competition and training.

[Chapo]

G'day,

While I agree that point number 3 is a good idea I'm tend to think that it isn’t at all practical, and in fact could create a rather dangerous situation.

Practically you have to consider the location of the extinguisher. It can’t be in front of the driver in anyway due to the new templates, if you put it under the seat you couldn’t get to it when it was needed, and if you put it on the back of the car it’s in the area that is most likely to burn and again poses problems with accessing it.

From a safety point of view, look at the photos above, in this case the entire car was engulfed in flames before the driver got out. Would you really want a driver to go back into the car to get a fire extinguisher? It’s not something that I would want any of my drivers to risk to try and save the car. To me the driver getting to safety is far more important than trying to save the car, while yes we do sign away years of our lives working on these things they are replaceable but your mate isn’t.

Just another minor aside, it’s not much evidence to base this point off but has anyone ever seen the mythbusters episode when they try and extinguish a fire by putting a fire extinguisher in it till it explodes? It’s pretty cool to watch, but the point is they are a pressurised vessel which is just going to have pressure build up in it until it pops. If people are trying to fight the fire and an extinguisher goes bang because it’s in the middle of the fire there is huge potential for serious injury or fatality due to the extinguisher bottle or anything else that gets caught up in the blast.

The only feasible way that I can see this working is a plumbed in extinguisher with the activation cable hooked to the steering wheel. That way when the driver realises that the car is on fire and tries to get out of there with the speed of a thousand startled gazelles and forgets to pull the extinguisher cable, it is attached to the wheel and gets pulled anyway. It does mean that you will have to disconnect and reconnect the system every time you do a driver change though. That idea is just spit balling and I’m sure that someone has a better one.

Personally if these cars catch on fire GET CLEAR OF IT. Let your team mates or marshals (the fact that they were not prepared for this, especially in a driver change area, is inexcusable) who should be constantly ready while the car is driving put the fire out with the extinguishers that they have prepared. And ensure that everyone knows how to use all the safety gear.

Well that’s my thoughts on the whole thing. Please feel free to tell me I’m wrong.

[woodsy96]

That fire looks extremely intense. It was very lucky that nobody was seriously hurt.

It is unfortunate that it takes accidents like these to initiate change, rather than people having the foresight to prevent it happening in the first place. When you look at safety changes to Formula One across its history they have all been in response to a serious (normally fatal) crash. It is, however, a reminder that Formula SAE is motor racing, and that all of the risks associated with motor racing are present (if not in higher doses).

When I first got involved in FSAE I was kind of suprised that a fireproof balaclava was not mandatory. That has changed this year, and I feel like adding socks and underwear is not a bad suggestion.

At Thomas, the argument of the cost of safety is complete rubbish. How much would it cost to get a driver's face reconstructed if he was trapped inside a burning car and his visor melted to his face (like Tetsuya Ota)? How would you feel if you were driving the car and because of one crash you looked like Nikki Lauda for the rest of your life? Our team owns the driving suits and arm restraints, but the rest of gear (helmet, gloves, boots, balaclava) the drivers have to buy/borrow themselves.

I'm not sure whether I agree with the second point or not. If you introduce it, do you extend it include all oil related parts as well? How do you positively lock a hose clamp for a silicone hose connecting the intake to the head, which if it slipped off would spray fuel everywhere? What about a seal that wasn't checked and is leaking fuel? Your bolt was loctited in and it came loose. Bolts can snap, threads can strip, holes can develop in fuel tanks, amongst a whole load of other scenarios that can cause fuel to leak onto ignition sources. I feel like introducing a regulation like this is a knee-jerk reaction to this specific situation. (I am probably going to get shot down on this one).

On the third point, I agree with Chapo. And who wants to rush into a fireball like the photos on this thread to retrieve a fire extinguisher that is mounted in the cockpit?

I feel like one of the more important points of this discussion is the involvement of officials at events. I have heard stories from alum about fires at competitions where officials have just stood watching while cars burned. I know that they are volunteers: I have spent some time volunteering at the local kart club. We have to tread carefully when asking to much from them, but they need to understand that they need to be more alert in regards to safety (and not just fire safety, as Bemo pointed out). This is not just restricted to FSAE, there was an incident at Pukekohe (a race car track in Auckland) a couple of years ago where a car crashed and caught fire, and the fire crew drove around the entire track to extinguish the fire, but which time guys pride and joy was a pool of molten metal. If he was trapped in the car there would be no doubt that he would have been burned to death.

Maybe all events should have a designated fire crew in the driver change area and on the track. At the local speedway there are two fire crews on standby at all times (wearing fireproof overalls + balaclava) on a track that is 400m long: rescue crew response times to a fire or crash are rarely more than 10 seconds. I feel like this is the thing that needs to be investigated more than introducing positive locking mechanism regulations to fuel systems when the teams should consider this when they build the car anyway.

[DART-CG]

Hey guys, thanks for all your replies!

I think I got a bit misunderstood in my third point (due to a wrong formulation):

Concerning an onboard fire extinguisher I mean a system in the back of the car and/or near the fule cell like 3 or 4 small CO2 or powder cartridges which can be activated from within the cockpit by a sort of an ejection seat mechanism.
Another CO2 cartridge could be placed within the cockpit area to prevent flames from attacking the driver at least for some seconds.

Hell no, the driver doesn't have to take an extinguisher from underneath the car. This would be rubbish indeed http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Chapo]

Thats the kind of thing I was getting at, but I was thinking of a singular bottle with hoses feeding off it to different places, like an aircraft or full race car fire supression system.

While its a nice idea im a big fan of the get out and run approach. I think "get away from the fire" is enough for someone to think about, let the guys on the side deal with putting it out.

Thats my thoughts

[DART-CG]

"The-get-out-and-run-approach" http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Perhaps the running should be implemented in the 5s ejection test http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seriously, design of a fire surpressing system would be a great engineering task. Perhaps in future terms an extra category for safety on racecars should be judged seperately or within the design competition.

Later in industry huge attention is drawn on safety in many ways. So teams could be honored when using safety devices like impact safe PBO or aramide fibres in the side of their monocoques or pitched up side walls to protect a drivers head from accelerating too much during a side impact.
Sorry to the teams using such a device but i am always scared when seeing aluminium or even magnesium space frames on FSAE cars. They always remind me of crumpling a coke can when thinking of an accident.

[overdrive535]

On the issue of on-board extinguishers:

My P91 Crown Vic has an on-board automatic fire suppression system (Because the Fuel Tank is right in front of the Rear Axle). It consists of some canisters that are designed to open on one end when the temperature becomes so high, releasing a fire suppressant and choking the fire (In theory). I haven't looked too deeply into it, but if such a system was available commercially, it could be a huge bonus in terms of safety.

[RenM]

the problem with a fire suppression system will be, that it has to be actuated. In the panic situation of a fire the driver is very likely to forget that.

In my opinion its the organizers who have to make sure that enough fire extinguishers are issued to the marshals and that they actually use them.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

I'm very surprised they still only require an SFI 3-2A/1 fire suit. If the egress is 5 seconds, and stopping from 60 MPH takes 5 seconds, the drivers should really be wearing SFI 3-2A/5, which gives 10 seconds until 2nd degree burns, up from 3 seconds.

And if the driver is panicking, can't see, etc, this is just more time for the track officials to get the fire out.

[Tim.Wright]

I would tend to agree that the cost and complexity of an onboard extinguisher system would be prohibitive to many teams.

I think that with the 5 second egress and more/better trained marshals fire shouldn't ever cause an injury in FSAE - and to date it hasn't (to my knowledge) despite a number of fires over the years.

This is ONLY because there is very very little chance of a driver being trapped in an FSAE car which is where an onboard system would save injury.

However, for the cases where these cars are taken on hillclimbs etc (which is the target market??) then you could very possibly find yourself stuck under the car wedged up against a tree with the car on fire.

In short, I don't think they should be mandated for the competition, but I think you could justify including one in the design/cost events pretty easily.

Tim

[MH]

Very good discussion. But aren't we forgetting the area where the most progress can be made?
I'm talking about the level of the marshals. I know that they're volunteers and everything, but at the moment I would not feel comfortable placing my life in the hands of most of them. To be honest I don't know what kind of briefing they get before comp or what kind of qualification they need to be a marshal.

But perhaps it's not a bad idea to put some effort (from organization side) into giving a crash-course into fire-extinguishing, getting panicing driver of the car etc the day before the comp starts. Also a booklet with some general how-to-handles in case of crashes and fires. If you makes this available to marshals well before the start of the comp, they have time to read it and at comp you only have to remind them or demonstrate the most important stuff...

For example, when we hosted the Dutch Open we had teams of 3 marshals around the track every 50m or so. In case of some emergency one of them would tend to flagging and directing the other cars away from the accident scene and keep communication with the race-leader. The second one would handle the fire extinguisher and the third one would tend to the driver.

In my opinion the profit/cost ratio is good on this one...

Just my 2 cents.
regards,
Miki Hegedus
Delft University of Technology
2001-2008

[Kevin Thomassen]

Dear all,

Like most of you know, I was helping the Italian event during the Static and Dynamic Days. Didn't had any briefing because they were in Italian or not given.

During the endurance I was keeping an eye for the Safety on the back of the track. Just let you know that the organisation didn't told me what the safety regulations are during the endurance and I also didn't had a portable radio.

The Marshall's in my neighbourhood were very slow with flags and didn't understand English. Very difficult to explain them what to do. During the Darmstadt car I saw some smoke and small fire. I spoke directly with the Marshall with the portable radio to "stop" the Darmstadt car. But he didn't understand me. Using a little bit of French he understood me and could give the Marshall on the Start/Finnish the flag signal. So it took like 20seconds to explain the Marshall's what happened.

The next problem was that most of the flags from the Marshall's were way to far from the position. I only saw a red/black flag at Start/Finish

So I'm writing now a huge Feedback report about the Italian event. A lot of teams already send me their Feedback. Thanks for that. If there are some more teams who like to give their feedback they can send it to me before Friday, September 25.

[Stocky Fast 1]

Very glad to see everyone made it out ok!

I think the largest issue with this Italian even is the organization. Judging from Dart's origional post it seems the volunteers for the event are just random volunteerS. For the American SAE competitions all volunteers are SCCA trained corner workers. I've seen them pull drivers out from overturned vehicles, not is SAE competition but at full scale racing events. I don't know to what extent the European events are sanctioned by SAE but what happened in Italy would never have happened in the American competitions. Be it either checking all drivers are wearing thier nomex head socks required since this past year and other equipment or that the corner workers are properly trained. The speedways we compete at would never let SAE hold an event if they didn't come with proper safety workers, volunteers or not.

This is surprising becuase from what I hear the Formula Student events in Germany and England are excellent. I don't know if this is SAE or a Formula Student event. The worst aspect of this happening is that if enough people get worried about this we might see some over the top new safety rules when a little bit of common sense and training could have gone a long way.

[jerry_tung]

look at this guy here
http://bbs.yvvv.com/attachment/Mon_0909/37_29778_1f0ecaecf8a396e.jpg