FSAE-Australasia 2010 Pre-Competition Thread

[Kirby]

Hey Guys,

Hope all is going well with your cars!

Just a reminder have your SEF's in the mail and postmarked by next Friday (September 10th) at the latest!! Personally, I'd aim for the end of this week.

I had a question, is Lee/Leigh of ex-RMIT still organising the afterparty this year?

[oz_olly]

Hey Kirby,

I'm also pretty keen to know what's happening with the after party this year. I'm pretty sure I am not goint Optimum G again so I am planning to party hard on Sunday night. If I attend as a student this year I think it will be my last year as a student so I will be keen to celebrate. If I end attend as a volunteering then I can celebrate for last year and really have a good time.

Cheers

[Macros]

Don't forget about the after comp car swap as well.

[Kirby]

just so no one gets confused, the SEF is softcopy only.

key dates below:

2. Safety Structure Equivalency Form - September 10, 2010
See Appendix B-1 of US Rules
Submit on line in Adobe Acrobat.
Formula SAE-A Technical Committee
formulasae@sae-a.com.au

3. Impact Attenuator Data Requirements - October 1, 2010
Submit on line in Adobe Acrobat.
Formula SAE-A Technical Committee
formulasae@sae-a.com.au

4. Design Report & Design Spec Sheet - October 1, 2010
Submit as Adobe Acrobat format
E-mail: formulasae@sae-a.com.au

5. Cost Report must be received by
- Electronic Version October 15, 2010
- Hard Copy Version October 22, 2010
Post: Formula SAE-A Technical Committee
SAE-Australasia
Level 2, Suite B – 70 Dorcas Street
Southbank 3006
Australia
E-mail: formulasae@sae-a.com.au

Edit: Olly, do you know if you are coming our way yet?

[oz_olly]

Yeah I'm definitely coming to Radelaide next year. I'm looking forward to it because it's one of the few opportunities available to do real design work on a regular basis. I should organise to drop by and say hello to the team.

What are the plans for car swap drive day? I would be pretty keen to put our car in the hands of others if we get it well enough sorted and the team wants to. We are pretty lucky to actually have quite a bit of diversity of concepts here in the Australian comp (light singles (custom and stock), big fours with wings, beam axle suspension, independant suspension carbon everything etc)

Cheers

[Charlie]

Car swap, that sounds like a brilliant idea. Was it done last year?

I'm planning on making the trip this season, looking forward to it!

[oz_olly]

So are you coming down to Aus to watch or judge? Should we sharpen our driveline design briefs? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers

[tgman2]

Any international teams making the trip down this year?

[oz_olly]

Hey Tim,

What stage are you guys currently up to with the aluminium panel monocoque? We are looking at going to that style of construction next year and it would be really good to come up to kensington and talk to you guys about it.

Would the team be interested?

Cheers

[Charlie]

I'd like to judge this year but if that isn't possible I'm sure I'll volunteer somewhere.

I've been working in vehicle dynamics the last couple years so better brush up on that too http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Tom W]

Originally posted by oz_olly:
Hey Tim,

What stage are you guys currently up to with the aluminium panel monocoque? We are looking at going to that style of construction next year and it would be really good to come up to kensington and talk to you guys about it.

Would the team be interested?

Cheers

We would be happy to show you around. I don't want to steal the chassis guys thunder too much but the monocoque is essentially finished.

Unfortunately the SEF rules on side impact punch through tests have absolutely ruined the whole concept (the template rules made life hard enough to start with). I suppose thats bound to happen when you run aluminium skins thinner than a single layer of woven carbon...

Currently the team is seriously considering heading back to a spaceframe next year because to pass the punch through test you have to add piles of weight to the chassis. The irony being that if the team does build a spaceframe next year it will be many times less safe in the case of running into a <STRIKE>22mmm</STRIKE>25.4mm bar that is located parallel to the ground surface because of the gaping holes between tubes and the very high energy absorption we get because of the large area of honeycomb panel on the side of the chassis if we ever run sideways into a wall. If we get really energetic it would be fun to check what the applied crush loads on our chassis would be now that we have had to stiffen the side walls up so much.

EDIT: Seriously Charlie! Design was going to be stressful enough already!

[carbon_black]

Originally posted by tgman2:
Any international teams making the trip down this year?

Registered so far is Sophia, Denki, Missouri, Yeung Nom (Yeungnam?) and Jamshedpur, as well as the usual New Zealand teams.

Personally, I'm really keen to see Missouri.

Pete
UTS Motorsports

[Jon Oneill]

Whats the deal with the Car swap?

We'd be really interested in doing this as well as most other teams I'm sure. The benefits in terms of justification for the design phase next year would be massive. If Monash we're there, wings and their benefit could be analyzed back to back, with other 4cyl, spool cars, spool vs diff, 4cyl vs single. Sounds like a ball.

The question is...where and who is organizing such an event?

oh, and who's going to Optimum G?

Where almost at rolling, but we're expecting a running car before mid Oct. Plenty of testing time is the goal.

[Pete G]

Paul from our team emailed most of the Aus teams earlier this year to try and organise a car swap after comp, I think he only got a couple of responses though. Ideally the car swap will be on the tuesday after comp, avoiding the inevitable monday hangover, and will probably be somewhere like Silhouette Kart track. We've already planned to keep our car in aus till then so unless we break our car at comp we'll be there.

And there will probably be three or four people from Auckland at Optimum G aswell.

[Tom W]

Originally posted by Ping_Goldstein:
Paul from our team emailed most of the Aus teams earlier this year to try and organise a car swap after comp, I think he only got a couple of responses though. Ideally the car swap will be on the tuesday after comp, avoiding the inevitable monday hangover, and will probably be somewhere like Silhouette Kart track. We've already planned to keep our car in aus till then so unless we break our car at comp we'll be there.

And there will probably be three or four people from Auckland at Optimum G aswell.

Yep our official response is that we will be there.

Hopefully I will be able to convince a few of our team members to head along to OptimumG, I will certainly be recommending it to them all.

[PatClarke]

I'd like to judge this year but if that isn't possible I'm sure I'll volunteer somewhere.

Charlie, you are on! I'll fix it for you =]

Cheers

Pat

[Kirby]

Originally posted by Ping_Goldstein:
Paul from our team emailed most of the Aus teams earlier this year to try and organise a car swap after comp, I think he only got a couple of responses though. Ideally the car swap will be on the tuesday after comp, avoiding the inevitable monday hangover, and will probably be somewhere like Silhouette Kart track. We've already planned to keep our car in aus till then so unless we break our car at comp we'll be there.

And there will probably be three or four people from Auckland at Optimum G aswell.

I never got an email. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I think there needs to be an un-official AU teams register somewhere.

[nowhere fast]

Originally posted by oz_olly:
Hey Tim,

What stage are you guys currently up to with the aluminium panel monocoque? We are looking at going to that style of construction next year and it would be really good to come up to kensington and talk to you guys about it.

Would the team be interested?

Cheers

Hi Olly,

You seem like a nice guy so further to Tom’s offer I would like to offer you our 2009 chassis which is affectionately known as the glass bottom boat. The acceleration of this thing is fairly good when coupled with either a Yamaha r6 engine or an appropriately sized outboard motor.

Of course it is well known that the hull sustained a substantial leak during its maiden voyage at last years comp, but collectively the team had seen enough MacGyver re-runs to fix it with a little help from Monash (thanks again guys).

Unfortunately I fear that this chassis may soon make its final voyage from the roof of the uni car park to the conveniently located skip below unless someone accepts this offer.

Cheers,

The artist formerly known as Donald Trump

UNSW Redback Racing

[oz_olly]

If you are serious I'm sure we would be happy to take it off your hands and play with it a bit and see what we can learn. We used to have a tow tank here at ADFA but now the area is used for the shock tunnel, such a shame because we could have tested the hulls drag and wake profile.

I do remember helping lift your car into the back of the truck when the skin ripped out. Was the control arm clevis only attached to the outer skin?

What strength skins do you guys use? Do you make your own panels or buy them? Tom said the 1 inch puncture (shear) test has kind of ruined the concept. Can this be overcome by using a higher strength skin such as 2024 or 7075 or is it a combination of the core crushing strength as well?

In all seriousness we are keen to learn what ever our Kensington friends will teach us.

Cheers

[nowhere fast]

We are happy to share knowledge with our extended UNSW family. Although that chassis is a good example of what not to do.

The clevis was attached to both skins and both skins tore through. The problem was in the geometry of the front lower control arm which resulted in a huge tensile load during braking. Adding more reinforcement to the inner skin at the suspension point would have helped but ideally we would have splayed the front most LCA point further forward.
We actually knew of this problem beforehand but were constrained by the location of the steering rack and passed it off as ‘she’ll be right mate’.

We buy the panels with 5052 skins; I believe the consistency of the bond between the core and skins of the purchased panels is far better than we could achieve ourselves and the price is very reasonable. I am an alum so I am not familiar with the puncture test but I imagine that skin thickness, core density, and skin material would play a part.

Cheers

[woodsy96]

Originally posted by Kirby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ping_Goldstein:
Paul from our team emailed most of the Aus teams earlier this year to try and organise a car swap after comp, I think he only got a couple of responses though. Ideally the car swap will be on the tuesday after comp, avoiding the inevitable monday hangover, and will probably be somewhere like Silhouette Kart track. We've already planned to keep our car in aus till then so unless we break our car at comp we'll be there.

And there will probably be three or four people from Auckland at Optimum G aswell.

I never got an email. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I think there needs to be an un-official AU teams register somewhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sent an email to Lauren Ricks back in April (that was the contact listed on your website at the time). I had lots of issues trying to find team's contact email addresses- either because the team's website is down or because the email addresses are not actually listed on the website- and then the only teams that I got a response from were Monash, UNSW and WESMO. I take it that both Adelaide and UTS are interested then as well?

@Charlie: Last year UWA and Monash did a similar thing- we were invited during the comp but unfortunately our shipping was already planned for the Monday.

One thing we did also think about was whether some of the design judges would be interested in tagging along - maybe throw one in the hot seat so that they can compare their theories to practice http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

[Charlie]

I promise not to deny anyone the pleasure of letting me try out your machine http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I was lucky enough to do a car swap with Georgia Tech the year that we both competed in Oz (2003), and it was really interesting. The cars were day and night different, but both quick. It's a great idea to have something like that after the comp.

[oz_olly]

Pat,

Would it be possible for you to run a design review at FSAE-A this year like you have done at FSG in the past? Also, is it common place for teams to receive written feedback on the design report? We got feedback in 2009 from Mark on our design presentation but nothing relating specifically to our design report.

Cheers

[PatClarke]

Hi Olly,

Of course I could. The question is would I want to?

I am extremely unhappy with how FSAEA has been run recently. I also have some serious issues with the Organisers. Last year I was only a 50/50 chance to come down as a judge. The organisers flatly refused to cover out of pocket expenses for visiting judges, so Ron and I and others simply weren't coming! This was despite the ridiculous entry fee last year!

Being fully of the opinion the event is for the students, not the SAE, I personally organised a last minute sponsor to cover the Judge's costs.

The SAEA are of the opinion the event is a 'racing event' and so should be 'User Pays'.
In truth, the event is the only real recruitment event the SAE do and as a result, the future of the SAE as an association into the future depends on
1) the success of FSAEA and
2) the events/Functions/Incentives the SAE offer to keep membership.
FSAEA should not be a profit making operation, certainly the situation should never have been reached that without the profit from FSAEA, the Association would become unviable!

The SAEA claim they have no sponsors as some of the Consortium members have withdrawn or reduced their input, so the teams must stump up the costs. Funny that I can find sponsors without having to try too hard. Twice I have met with the organisers and outlined to them a plan, yet very little seems to have happened.

Compare with FS Austria (Where there are no kangaroos) =]

There, the event attracted about 30 entries...similar to FSAEA. The event was well run, lots of fun and with a fully sponsored after party. Teams could camp on site. All in all a really fun and educational event...ask anyone who was there.
Entry Fee for FSA? 1,000 Euros
Entry Fee for FSAE? $4,200! Plus the associated CAMs licence costs.

Oh, and the Austrians had to pay for the venue!

The difference? In Austria they had looked outside the box for sponsors. One of the biggest was a headhunting organisation who recognised the existence of a valuable talent pool. I have never seen headhunters remotely involved with FSAEA!

Meanwhile, are they looking after your (the competitors) interests. Hardly!
This year saw the formation of the FSAE World Council, having their first meeting in Hockenheim as part of FSG. Bob Sechler, the Director of Collegiate Affairs at SAE wrote to SAEA and asked that I should represent Australia, seeing as I would be present and given I have the most FSAE experience of anyone in the SAEA sphere of influence. Nope, this was rejected, so Australia was not represented. Brazil, Japan, Italy, Austria, etc were all present, but no Australia =( Bob Sechler is very worried about the viability of FSAEA! and rightly so.

So, although I still have a passion for FSAE and contribute heaps to the competition internationally, I feel I am treated as something of a pariah at home!

After this rant, I probably wont even be asked to judge this year, so if I am not there, you will understand why! I might go to FSAE Mongolia instead!

From a positive perspective, maybe this will be read as it is intended, constructive criticism and something positive regarding the Australian competition might come from it? Remember when FSAEA was the best little competition in the world? It could be that again, but some serious shaking up needs to be done!

Cheers

Pat

[oz_olly]

One of the very dissapointing things I find as an advocate of the FSAE Project within the Department of Defence is that people write it off as a 'go-kart' competition that has no relevance to aircraft, tanks or ships. There are far more industries in Australia that reap the benefits of students being involved in FSAE than just the automotive industry. I think it would not be very hard for SAE-A to tap into these industries and ultimately partner with IEAust to remove some of this stigma.

I do hope that SAE-A can resolve some of these issues because people like yourself, Claude and Steve Fox really seem to make the students think and have the experience to judge fairly. Not that the other judges don't do a great job but having judges with experience from multiple different comps can only improve the quality of the Australian entrants. Our team is still striving to compete at FSG but until we can crack the top five of FSAE-A it is hard to get the required support and justify the expense.

Cheers

[Jon Oneill]

We'd be very interested in taking part in a car swap. We were planning on shipping out on monday, but it looks like we'll be spending monday in melbourne to recover. We were also planning on having several members at Optimum G but lack of $ put a halt to that.

I'm assuming a gentleman's (& ladies) agreement will be put together closer to the event in terms of driving behaviour, etc. Last thing we'd like to see is any problems arise with any of the cars.

Perhaps it may also be worth looking into finding somewhere else to run the car swap other than Silhouette. A bit more run off room would probably be nice, but I guess we'll be looking to the Vic based teams for some input in that area.

BTW. Not having Pat at the event seems a little off putting to me. I've been going for 5 years now and its always good to get the input of Ron and Pat's input with our designs. Straight forward as it may have been in the past, its always welcome.

[Charlie]

Originally posted by PatClarke:
Hi Olly,

Of course I could. The question is would I want to?

I am extremely unhappy with how FSAEA has been run recently. I also have some serious issues with the Organisers. Last year I was only a 50/50 chance to come down as a judge. The organisers flatly refused to cover out of pocket expenses for visiting judges, so Ron and I and others simply weren't coming! This was despite the ridiculous entry fee last year!

Being fully of the opinion the event is for the students, not the SAE, I personally organised a last minute sponsor to cover the Judge's costs.

Hi Pat-

Sorry to hear that you've been dissapointed in the recent SAEA events. I can't really offer any direct opinions on the recent events having not attended. Kudos to you for finding ways to get more quality judges at the events despite cutbacks in available funds.

However I must say I take the word 'volunteer' literally and I would not have expected assistance from SAEA to be a volunteer judge (though any help is certainly appreciated). Your comment about no judge compensation being 'despite the ridiculous entry fee' seems counter-intuitive as certainly the entry fee was increased due to loss/lack of funding and therefore it could be expected that less resources are available.

I think the high entry fee for SAEA is a serious concern that needs to be addressed; certainly my first year in FSAE our entire year budget was less than the new entry fee! But personally I don't put volunteer compensation as high on a priority list as it wouldn't keep me from volunteering (time is the bigger issue). I hope it won't keep you from contributing and enjoying the event this year.

Charlie

[PatClarke]

Charlie,
Thanks for the comments and I am sure I will be there this year.
Please realise I live more than 1000km away from the event, so for Ron Tauranac and myself to attend, I am talking about committing time, (which I am fine with) Experience (ditto) but the return airfare and three nights accommodation gets a bit much, especially when one considers what else is put in.
Should I live in Melbourne or nearby, it would not be an issue, I would stay at home and drive to the event.

And sadly, I discovered many years ago that when you do something for nothing, you just get taken advantage of! Sad but true.

Cheers

Pat

[Charlie]

It's understandable and everyone has their own expectations, however I gladly paid my own airfare from the US when I came to volunteer in 2005. I was offered hotel that year which I gladly accepted (and this seems to be the most fair offer as it can be an equal one to all judges visiting from wherever they may be).

1000km is a long haul indeed and not an easy drive (though unfortunately I've driven longer distances in a day for work before!). I've seen good prices on the SYD-MEL route before but don't know how often they come and go.

If you feel you are being taken advantage of, by all means you should request what you think is fair. But in my opinion just being given the opportunity to be a judge in one of these events is a privilege, and if my schedule allows it, the details are not too concerning to me.

[woodsy96]

I'm assuming a gentleman's (& ladies) agreement will be put together closer to the event in terms of driving behaviour, etc. Last thing we'd like to see is any problems arise with any of the cars.

Perhaps it may also be worth looking into finding somewhere else to run the car swap other than Silhouette. A bit more run off room would probably be nice, but I guess we'll be looking to the Vic based teams for some input in that area.

I don't have any particular issues with the amount of run off at Silhouette- and given that people will be driving another team's pride and joy I don't think that people would be pushing so hard that run off areas would be an issue.

The other reason for going to Silhouette (aside from location) is that they are happy for us to do it there. A large number of teams use the circuit pre-comp for testing, so I assumed that people in general were comfortable with the venue.

[hardcoreharry]

Should I live in Melbourne or nearby, it would not be an issue, I would stay at home and drive to the event.
We have the Mizzou Racing team sharing shop with us. One more would not make a difference http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Kirby]

Hardcoreharry: What Uni Mate?

Just a reminder about Design and IA reports are due today at 5pm Melbourne Time.

Yes, the SAE-A website is down (again), but I think email's are still going through.

[Simmo]

Originally posted by PatClarke:
Charlie,
Thanks for the comments and I am sure I will be there this year.
Please realise I live more than 1000km away from the event, so for Ron Tauranac and myself to attend, I am talking about committing time, (which I am fine with) Experience (ditto) but the return airfare and three nights accommodation gets a bit much, especially when one considers what else is put in.
Should I live in Melbourne or nearby, it would not be an issue, I would stay at home and drive to the event.

And sadly, I discovered many years ago that when you do something for nothing, you just get taken advantage of! Sad but true.

Cheers

Pat

Pat,

I'm sure we could use the additional pair of hands in exchange for accommodation. In all seriousness..

Kind regards,
Simon

[Pete Marsh]

Regarding an after comp drive day, UWA needs to do it on the Monday if its going to happen. Its too expensive to stay an extra night and many already have flights on Tuesday morning. If it's Tuesday a few of us will still be able to come and watch.

Silhouette was an awesome venue, and they let us put out cones to set up a SAE style track, so run off and speed is not an issue.

As well as FSAE, how about an all in Go Kart race? Silhouette did some go kart hire at a discount last year and I think spending a few dollars with them is the least we can do since they let us run wild on their track.

Pete

[oz_olly]

Hey Pete, I think an all in go kart race would be an awesome idea and a great way to give something back to the company.

In regards to running a FSG style design event debrief with Q&A session, how many teams would be interested in this? If there is reasonable interest, I will email Marissa and ask that it be considered.

Also does anyone know what happened to the extra awards at FSAE-A there used to be some cool extra awards like the PBR brake design award and a bling award etc. Looking back through old FSAE-A newsletters we have posted on our website it seems there was much greater variety in terms of corporate sponsors meaning there must have been more depth than the major Australian Auto Manufacturers. I think SAE-A should be hitting up the likes of the big mining companies which suck up plenty of Mechanical and Electrical graduates.

Here's a random idea I just had, how about a teams choice award? All teams could put in $50 cash towards the kitty and then submit their nomination after the enduro like the way best and fairest points are done in footy. Presentation could be made at the after party. The judging criteria would be based upon willingness to help others, how friendly and willing they are to explain their car and the way the approach the competition in general. If people like this idea I would be happy to organise it. If teams didn't want to contribute they wouldn't get a vote.

Cheers

[Moke]

Originally posted by oz_olly:
Here's a random idea I just had, how about a teams choice award? All teams could put in $50 cash towards the kitty and then submit their nomination after the enduro like the way best and fairest points are done in footy. Presentation could be made at the after party. The judging criteria would be based upon willingness to help others, how friendly and willing they are to explain their car and the way the approach the competition in general. If people like this idea I would be happy to organise it. If teams didn't want to contribute they wouldn't get a vote.

We did this last year and most teams were happy to join in and tell us who had helped them out. Of course one team did nominate themselve.

[oz_olly]

Was there a prize? I can't even remember who won it. All I remember is that we won Miss FSAE-A so at least we went home with one title.

Cheers

[Moke]

Nah no prize, we spent all our budget on our jackets. Monash and Auckland were joint winners. I've uploaded the video to you tube, youtube. com /watch?v=2TVHTr_h3OI or search

[Jon Oneill]

Isn't it about time we got the production updates happening? Where is everyone up too?

We've currently got a rolling chassis, Rims are going together, loom is being finished off, and we're almost in a position to put together our engine package.

Pics after the jump.....

h t t p ://utsmotorsports.tumblr.com
h t t p ://www.utsmotorsports.com/

Also, We're definitely keen to take part in the vehicle swap day. As I said previously, we'll be in Melbourne for the Monday anyway so if everyone is happy with that, we'll be there.

Gentleman rules is good enough for us, as we we're at Silhouette last year for the Wednesday and everyone worked pretty well together.

I guess this will be discussed in greater detail before & during the event.

64 days to go...

[Jon Oneill]

Go kart race sounds like a fantastic idea. Maybe 1-2 kart's per team with pit driver changes would be fantastic fun. Mini endurance race?

We're also keen and now planning to take part in the vehicle swap. I guess talks with the other teams pre event, and at the event will sort out all the nitty gritty.

Finally, We're interested to see where everyone's cars are up too. We've just got our roller finished a few days ago and are heading towards our running car at the moment.10 day weeks at the moment just like everyone else i'm sure. Lets see some update pics...

h t t p : / / utsmotorsports.tumblr.com

[hardcoreharry]

Hardcoreharry: What Uni Mate?

Just a reminder about Design and IA reports are due today at 5pm Melbourne Time.

Yes, the SAE-A website is down (again), but I think email's are still going through.

Melbourne Uni.
We are about a week and a bit off a powered car (if everything continues to go to plan..), how are you guys looking? Hope its good. Really looking forward to comp this year, should be a good one.

[Pete_G]

Hey All,

Not sure if Sydney will be able to do the swap-meet, I believe the car is coming back on Monday, I'll see what I can do about delaying that a day or two.

An FSAE-A register or something similar would be a great idea. Feel free to contact us. Our new website is h t t p : // sydney.edu.au / engineering / aeromech / fsae

We are hoping to be rolling and firing on all 2 by Tues (so probably Friday).

Cheers,

Pete Gatenby
Team Leader 2010
University of Sydney

[Chapo]

ADFA is coming along well, we have a running car and are currently tuning the car as much as possible to try and get the best out of it.

Hopefully we will get to do the car swap and people can have a go at the car with beam suspension, either way I will be at the track to watch and admire.

Look forward to seeing everyone at the comp.

[Kirby]

I am getting over this cost report, quickly.

[Jon Oneill]

Seeing as most of the Sydney teams have posted on here....

Does anyone have any hot tips on where to do some skid pan testing. We've found a few places to test, but none of them have an area big enough to lay out the skid pan figure 8.

Are any teams interested in sharing the costs of renting a skid pan for a day? feel free to get in contact with me if your interested, as we really cant afford to cover the costs ourselves.

[hardcoreharry]

ADFA is coming along well, we have a running car and are currently tuning the car as much as possible to try and get the best out of it.
Have a question about the beam axle, is it possible to adjust corner weights without having a wheel go into positive camber?

[oz_olly]

We adjust corner weights by adjusting spring preload. We have found that the car is quite straight and level so doesn't require very much difference in preloads to balance the corner weights. What makes you think that adjusting corner weights would change the camber? There is no way that can happen on the front but it could happen in the rear if it was grossly unlevel due to the camber change we get the the 'de Dion Twist Axle'.

Cheers

[Tom W]

Originally posted by JonJon:
Seeing as most of the Sydney teams have posted on here....

Does anyone have any hot tips on where to do some skid pan testing. We've found a few places to test, but none of them have an area big enough to lay out the skid pan figure 8.

Are any teams interested in sharing the costs of renting a skid pan for a day? feel free to get in contact with me if your interested, as we really cant afford to cover the costs ourselves.

We haven't done any looking so far this year, but way back in the day UNSW did some testing at Eastern Creek on a skid pan there, every time we have called them in 07, 08 and 09 they have said that they wouldn't mind having us there as but they were booked.

I'm not sure who you have checked or if it would be possible but I had been considering the possibility of calling WSID dragway and seeing if we could setup a track in their braking area because I assume it would be fairly large, and nice and dusty to replicate Werribbee.

If you are looking and find that the only options are to pay I would push the UNSW team pretty hard to split the costs because from experience you really need a few cracks at driving a skidpad to figure out which freaking cones you are driving between. Amazing how easy it is to get lost in a figure 8.

[oz_olly]

So who is running so far? We are running but working through bugs and working towards having the car ready to pass scrutineering first go. We're trying to chase down a persistent understeer tendency which may be compliance in the steering system. A couple of subsitute components would hopefully make a big improvement but I'm not sure if we have the time to get them made.

I looked on the Monash website but they're not giving much away about their new car. Anyone have any hot tips?

I'm looking forward to seeing how Auckland have developed their engine and chassis concept. I would also like to see what Edith Cowen are up to on the back of some very good design advice from Kev Haywood. I was looking through pics of last yeats comp the other day and that black and gold paint job really worked.

What about a bling award this year? Are team team support team going to do the judging? They seem best qualified to issue such an award.

Cheers

[MalcolmG]

This year I'll be tagging along to comp as part of Team, Team Support Team. Should be nice to have a wander around the pits and check out the other cars a bit more.

Auckland have possibly suffered a bit from a reasonably inexperienced team and some bad luck with sponsors this year, but they've made some good developments on the engine and drivetrain package that should solve a lot of the issues that troubled us in the months before comp (and at comp) last year - they just need to get it finished!

I was also lucky enough to get a quick peek into Monash's workshop last week - I'm not going to go into any details but they've been doing what they're good at: testing the bejesus out of their old car and testing a bunch of new designs/ideas they're hoping to put on the new one. There's one particular system the suspension team were working on that I really hope makes it to comp this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Jon Oneill]

Originally posted by Tom W:

We haven't done any looking so far this year, but way back in the day UNSW did some testing at Eastern Creek on a skid pan there, every time we have called them in 07, 08 and 09 they have said that they wouldn't mind having us there as but they were booked.

I'm not sure who you have checked or if it would be possible but I had been considering the possibility of calling WSID dragway and seeing if we could setup a track in their braking area because I assume it would be fairly large, and nice and dusty to replicate Werribbee.

If you are looking and find that the only options are to pay I would push the UNSW team pretty hard to split the costs because from experience you really need a few cracks at driving a skidpad to figure out which freaking cones you are driving between. Amazing how easy it is to get lost in a figure 8.

Thanks for the reply Tom,

We've tried Bankstown airport & Nirimba skid pan so far in an official position, but both have been unable to help be it either through bookings or inabilities to facilitate us.

WSID, also has a massive Pit area, which is very large and flat that we could use, if we get a blessing from them. We'll try them next. After that and eastern creek, I think we're almost out of options. I'll keep you posted using PM's.

[oz_olly]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:

There's one particular system the suspension team were working on that I really hope makes it to comp this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What is it Monash? Is it an unsprung mounted undertray/diffuser?

I never quite get the whole secrecy thing. It's not like anyone would have time to copy it now.

Cheers

[MalcolmG]

I'm not sure if it's secret or not - but if it is then I might not be allowed back there again http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Fil]

malcolm i wouldnt have let you into the workshop if i was still around, stealing classified secrets, what was rache thinking! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

but now its out, flux capacitor, win all events before they even start...

[woodsy96]

A flux capacitor? Dammit. Oh well, we'll leave the car in Auckland and just bring a couple of full chillibins http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Macros]

Originally posted by woodsy96:
A flux capacitor? Dammit. Oh well, we'll leave the car in Auckland and just bring a couple of full chillibins http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I believe they're called Esky's over there.

[Kirby]

Sweet. I'll bring the beer and we can setup on the hill.

Edit:
Just saw an email from Marissa from friday; she is leaving SAE-A.
New person is Nikki Walker..

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by Fil:
malcolm i wouldnt have let you into the workshop if i was still around, stealing classified secrets, what was rache thinking! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
That's a pretty wild accusation, Rache thinking? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Besides, you told me about the flux capacitor ages ago, you're just as bad http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Fil]

hahaha, good point, how silly of me to suggest such a thing http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

yer monash were lucky to recruit dr emmett brown, so one point twenty one jiggawatts it is!

yer i told you but thats cause we are team team support team and sharing is caring.

[oz_olly]

So has Scott retired from FSAE on the back of the win in 2009? Or is he currently shopping for a new dress?

Cheers

[Fil]

words will never leave, he has somehow become a lecturer at monash and is the academic supervisor.

dresses are only bought if the team finishes all events and have to be bought from the op shop in northcote just before the after party, its now a 5 year tradition.

[Kirby]

Hey Everyone,

Don't forget to email your alumni and get them to volunteer for the competition.
The fairest marshals are always ones that have been there before!

The more *experienced* volunteers we get the less issues we have with running of the events. Anyone remember TI on the Thursday in '09?

[MalcolmG]

so to steer this thread back toward the important issues, does anyone know if anything has been organised for an after party?

[tgman]

Should we cut out the middle man and just go straight to crown? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[oz_olly]

The FSAE rules don't actually say you have to compete with the university you are studying with, it just says you have to be enrolled as a student. Has anyone studying by distance competed with a university in the town they live in?

So any more detail in regards to the driver swap? I'm not sure ADFA will be able to take our car but I would like to try and get there for a look.

Cheers

[Kirby]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
so to steer this thread back toward the important issues, does anyone know if anything has been organised for an after party?

I haven't heard anything. It will be needed.

[Jon Oneill]

FYI, we're finally running so it wont be long till we're out on the track.

[Boffin]

Also, Swinburne is running (shakedown last Tuesday) and had a pretty good test on Friday right up until the ecu shit it's self. Understeer issues seam to be solved and the car is very easy to drive at speed for a lengthy period.

Melbourne had shake down yesterday, and have a car with potential. They don't seam to be having issues with it and they should be able to tune it pretty well.

Word on the wire is Monash are running too.

[JeffreyH]

Originally posted by Kirby:
Hey Everyone,

Don't forget to email your alumni and get them to volunteer for the competition.
The fairest marshals are always ones that have been there before!

The more *experienced* volunteers we get the less issues we have with running of the events. Anyone remember TI on the Thursday in '09?

Auckland should have a pretty strong alumni contingent. I think there's about 8 of us coming.

I'm actually looking forward to watching some racing, unlike the last few years. I'm glad to hear there are quite a number of teams with running cars now.

[Kirby]

So those wondering about the after-party, in true FSAE style this came rolling through my inbox today:


Originally posted by Joh@RMIT:
"...It'll be at the Colonial Hotel on King Street in the city again, from about 7pm - we will have the place to ourselves, plenty of nibblies and limited discounted drinks, DJ etc etc. All for a very reasonable $20.

Given last year (not as many people came as we hoped, so we nearly didn't cover the cost of the night) I need to know in advance how many people will be coming, and to have everyone pay PRIOR to the night, so can you please email me rough numbers from your team who will attend? And of course if they want any changes, eg. if the teams don't want the food, I can cancel the catering and reduce the cost.

If you could let me know before Friday (that's when I have to finalise everything with the event staff at the Colonial) that would be fantastic.

Encourage all your team to come along to what is bound to be a fabulous night of drunken SAE antics!! Besides it'll only be good if we're all there. Let's celebrate the year of ridiculous hard work and stress!..."


Email her..I don't really want to post her email here....you will find it. Before Friday.

Adelaide will be there for sure!

[Jon Oneill]

Hi Guys,

We did not receive the above email, so we can't reply. After the year we've had, I'm sure we'll all be there this year.

[tgman2]

Only a week to go!

[Brootal]

The ECU car is on its way, probably just about to hit the Nullarbor. We actually managed to get a couple of test runs in BEFORE heading to Melbourne and discovered a couple of small issues.

It's looking, sounding and going pretty good.

Should I show a sneak peek... stuff it. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs498.ash2/77116_10150349122355122_620245121_16356437_7776182 _n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1150.snc4/149205_10150349122525122_620245121_16356441_482934 2_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1129.snc4/149115_10150349123855122_620245121_16356467_597683 _n.jpg

[MalcolmG]

oooooo monocoquolicious. Can't wait to see everyone's new cars next week!

[Brootal]

Not sure if I would use coquolicious in the design report, but... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[KingCong]

Oooh shiny. Can't wait to see all the 2010 cars and all you guys/gals there.

It's my first FSAE-A event this year.

[Brootal]

I'm looking forward to it too and it's also my first time at the event. I get to do the marketing presentation... Yay!... I guess someone's gotta do it.

[brettd]

@Brootal: does your rear upper aft have a rod end in bending? From the angle in that photo it looks like it could have.

[Brootal]

I'm not sure to be honest, didn't have anything to do with the design or assembly, so couldn't tell you for sure.

Do you mean the second last or last photo?

[brettd]

Second last photo, have a read of this page:
w w w.formulastudent.de/academy/pats-corner/advice-details/article/pats-column-rod-ends-in-bending/

[Brootal]

Interesting reading, although that last couple of sentences about having adjustable suspension arms, then doing testing and then building a non-adjustable set, is pretty funny.

Not sure if that can be done in a day and a half. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That's an early photo because I didn't want to give away the livery for this year's car, so I'm not sure if that's how the car ended up. I'll have to take a look at the other pics.

[Macros]

I also hear there's going to be a best moustache competition. Anyone entering?

[Brootal]

From people that have grown fond of their Movember efforts?

I know one of our team members is sporting a rather impressive Chopper-esque 'tache. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Kirby]

In an effort to appease the QUT guys I have kept my moustache until comp. I look forward to showing it off.

[Brootal]

@brettd - Just had a closer look at the photos. Lowers are definitely not rod ends although uppers are. Not sure if that is something that will be changed prior to competition. Have to wait and see, I guess.