Light bevel gear and wheel bearing problems.

[lulehf]

This year we want to do a different solution on our steering column because we want our steering gear to be mounted on the closer to the driver to have more space for the feets.

Due to the shorter steering column and thight angel we thought a bevel gear would be the best soulution. However Im having problems finding good working, low weight bevel gear. The ones I find are suited for high rpm engine applications and weights at least 1kg which is a bit too much.

Does anyone have any experience with using a bevel gear for their steering column, and do you have any idea were we might find one suitable for us?

We also have problems finding a suitable wheel bearing. As wheel bearings arent one of my strong points ive talked with teachers at our school and even SKF themselves, but they sends me back to their homepage, and it dosent make me any smarter.

Now we want to have an bearing with around 100mm in inner diameter and about 115-135 mm in outer diamter that dosent weight too much. As a ong lifecycle of the bearing is less important Ive though about a needle bearing that can take a little axiel force, but Im not sure that it´ll work. Ive also looked at fixed section bearing which suits our aplication perfectly, but again im not sure how they take axiel force.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for any helpfull answer
Tom
Clear River Racing

[lulehf]

This year we want to do a different solution on our steering column because we want our steering gear to be mounted on the closer to the driver to have more space for the feets.

Due to the shorter steering column and thight angel we thought a bevel gear would be the best soulution. However Im having problems finding good working, low weight bevel gear. The ones I find are suited for high rpm engine applications and weights at least 1kg which is a bit too much.

Does anyone have any experience with using a bevel gear for their steering column, and do you have any idea were we might find one suitable for us?

We also have problems finding a suitable wheel bearing. As wheel bearings arent one of my strong points ive talked with teachers at our school and even SKF themselves, but they sends me back to their homepage, and it dosent make me any smarter.

Now we want to have an bearing with around 100mm in inner diameter and about 115-135 mm in outer diamter that dosent weight too much. As a ong lifecycle of the bearing is less important Ive though about a needle bearing that can take a little axiel force, but Im not sure that it´ll work. Ive also looked at fixed section bearing which suits our aplication perfectly, but again im not sure how they take axiel force.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for any helpfull answer
Tom
Clear River Racing

[RyMan]

As far as learning resources go, Timken has a pretty good catalog with tons of info about bearings.
Did you just arbitrarily pick those dimensions, or have you calculated the loading in your bearings and found that those are typical dimensions for bearings that are rated high enough?

[JonMW]

Hi
I would suggest looking at the bevel gears that Mekanex have. We used gears from them last year, can't remeber the exact weight, but it was less then 1kg.

About the bearings, have a look at the 618 and 619 series deep grove ball bearings. Like the 61820-2RS or the 61920-2RS.

Jon Myhr Wahlén
KTH Racing

[Jersey Tom]

medias.ina.de

Is a great resource for perusing just about any standard roller bearing you can imagine. Better than SKF or Timken's catalogs or anything.

Is there any particular reason it needs to be 100mm inner diameter, and not smaller? That's fairly large... I have a Champ Car hub at home, and that's not nearly as large.

[dazz]

Koyo Bearings in Australia has THE best downloadable bearing information I have found on the net yet! Go to the E-catalogue link on the page listed: http://www.koyoaust.com.au/

(Although I don't think our team has ever actually bought from them. Great source of info though.)

[HoggyN]

You could get a bevel box from these people...

Ondrive (http://www.ondrives.com/gearboxes-reducers-right-angle-bevel-gearbox.html)

They are heavy, but you could butcher the housing or fit the gears into a lighter housing of your own design.

[Adambomb]

We used a bevel gear box in our steering column in '05...and then never ever again. Actually we broke the thing. I think we then just bought the next model larger and replaced it, don't remember for sure. The steering wheel sees a lot more torque than one might imagine. Basically by the time we figured in cost, complexity, added backlash, and weight (especially considering we already broke one), we decided it wasn't worth doing again.

For wheel bearings, deep groove ball bearings or tapered roller bearings will work fine. 100 mm sounds pretty large though.

[Mike Cook]

For wheel bearings, as far as I have seen, anything over 2" ID gets really heavy or really expensive. Pick one. I haven't experimented with the deep grove ball bearings, only tapered rollers though.

[lulehf]

Thanks for the input!

the 100mm ID comes from the tripod housing. A smaller ID means that we have to do the actual hub and the tripod house in two different parts. Now that isnt a big problem but it will be easier if we can have the tripod housing inside the hub. However, if we cant find a suitable bearing we can go as low as 30-35mm ID, so then we have plenty to choose from.

Ive looked at the groove ball bearing myself. SKF have some special bearing with 101,6mm ID and 114,3mm OD, but dont know if they can cope with the forces so Ill phone them again today.

Considering the bevel gear we thought of making it ourselves. Surley a couple of 45 degree gears, a couple of small bearings and a house should be enough? Its a little worrying that the torque might exceed our expectations though.

[lulehf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JonMW:
Hi
I would suggest looking at the bevel gears that Mekanex have. We used gears from them last year, can't remeber the exact weight, but it was less then 1kg.

About the bearings, have a look at the 618 and 619 series deep grove ball bearings. Like the 61820-2RS or the 61920-2RS.

Jon Myhr Wahlén
KTH Racing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have just talked to SKF about those bearings, and the 618 series might work. However, he said they could take an axial force of about 6kN, which is just below our own calculations for the force (In a worste case senario), and he wasnt sure the bearing would manage it.

Have you guys used that series before and how did it work for you?

[JonMW]

We have used them for three years now without problems. Not as big as 100mm, why do you need that big?

[lulehf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JonMW:
We have used them for three years now without problems. Not as big as 100mm, why do you need that big? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not a necessity, but if we make it 100mm we can manufacture the hub in one piece with the tripod house. But its possible to make the in two parts aswell, so we can make them smaller.

[murpia]

This drawing suggests to me you would only need about a 70mm bearing ID for an integrated tripod housing / hub:

http://www.taylor-race.com/pdf/ACF114A.pdf

Regards, Ian

[RyMan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However, he said they could take an axial force of about 6kN, which is just below our own calculations for the force (In a worste case senario), and he wasnt sure the bearing would manage it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I did something wrong when I calculated the axial force, but 6kN's (~1,350 lbs) seems quite high even in a worst case scenario. Has anyone else gotten values this high?

[lulehf]

RyMan: Now I havent done the calculations myself, but I beleive they assumed that we had all weight on one wheel (basically the car standing on one outer wheel in a corner). Now obviusly that is way too much but the tought is that that is our safty factor. But there is just as likely that we have calculated wrong.

Also, the 100mm ID was a huge misunderstanding. The tripod guy looked at a larger tripod from pegasus at first, and I understood that they would go for that one. But obviusly theyve changed for a smaller tripod (taylor) from pegasus. Somehow Ive missed it and looked at bearings for the bigger axel.

This means that our axel should now be around 65-70mm OD, and that clearly helps finding a suitable bearing.

[flavorPacket]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by murpia:
This drawing suggests to me you would only need about a 70mm bearing ID for an integrated tripod housing / hub:

http://www.taylor-race.com/pdf/ACF114A.pdf

Regards, Ian </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We run 65mm ID bearings in the rear and have an internal CV. It can be done.