Some supercharged engine photos

[Dumonde08]

Has anyone any photos of supercharged FSAE cars? I cant find any pics here. Please

[Moke]

www.fsae.co.nz (http://www.fsae.co.nz)

[Dumonde08]

Thanks Moke,but I have already seen their website.But there are no good pics of supercharger. Only good detail of exhaust pipes :-) But thanks.

[Macros]

what exactly about "supercharged FSAE cars" would you like to see?

[Dumonde08]

I would like to see supercharger placement, intercooler (air-air or water-air ?) if is used. I'm interested how to connect output from supercharger to input of IC but I cant find any pictures. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[FStotal.com]

- Supercharged BRP Rotax Type 499 -> car JR08 -> joanneum Racing Graz (http://www.joanneum-racing.at)

- KTM LC4 690 Evo -> car Edge -> TUW Racing (http://racing.tuwien.ac.at)

- Honda CBR 600(PC35) -> car PW3.08 munich motorsport (http://munichmotorsport.de)

- Honda CBR 600 RR -> Unicorn G3 -> Unicorn Race Engineering (http://www.unicorn.aau.dk/)

[Dumonde08]

To FStotal: Thank you http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Any pics of Auckland University supercharged R6?

[MalcolmG]

I got your private message but forgot to reply. We have never run an intercooler in a competition because our testing showed it wasn't worth it for the weight/cost/packaging issues on our engine.

I will see if I can find some useful pics but all there is to see is a supercharger with a pipe coming out of it and running to the intake manifold

[Dumonde08]

Thank you for your answer. I think so that cooling by air to air IC would be difficult because of mounting supercharger,pipe it to the IC and to the intake manifold.Which pressure ratio are you using-I think that probably low ( 1.2-1.4?? )when you dont you use IC. Common cars use air to water cooling system but I think its bit difficult in that small free space in car frame and of course weight and cost rise up as you said. Do you use belt or chain pulley and on whitch site of crankshaft,near clutch or on the other site? I know I'm very curious but I'm very interested of that. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I hope you'll find some pictures.Thank you and have a nice time http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[MalcolmG]

it's belt driven from the clutch side of the engine. I think that Chalmers have used a water to air intercooler in the past.

[rjwoods77]

I think Cornell uses E85 without an IC.

[A Richards]

You could try something like this.....

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa249/deakinracetechnologies/CopyofBlown.jpg

[Dumonde08]

Originally posted by MalcolmG:
I got your private message but forgot to reply. We have never run an intercooler in a competition because our testing showed it wasn't worth it for the weight/cost/packaging issues on our engine.

I will see if I can find some useful pics but all there is to see is a supercharger with a pipe coming out of it and running to the intake manifold

I think that pics with "supercharger with a pipe coming out of it" would be enough for me.You have a drive pulley screwed to the crank shaft,padded with o-ring or how?

[Scrappy]

you may want to check out chalmers if you havent already.

http://web.student.chalmers.se...m_frontpage&Itemid=1 (http://web.student.chalmers.se/groups/formula/joomla/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1)

they use yamaha engines, so this is right up your alley.

[MalcolmG]

ok, here's a couple of pics, I couldn't find anything much better sorry

2008 engine:
http://www.engineers.auckland.ac.nz/~mgra128/08_engine.jpg
The outlet from the supercharger enters the plenum from below (yes I know the plenum is kinda ugly, it was our first prototype and the second one was much prettier)

Here's the 2007 engine:
http://www.engineers.auckland.ac.nz/~mgra128/07_engine_1.JPG
http://www.engineers.auckland.ac.nz/~mgra128/07_engine_2.JPG

In case you can't tell, the supercharger isn't actually properly attached but is roughly in the correct position. In this year we had the supercharger mounted to the base of the monocoque, which was good for some things but not so good for others. You can't see the plenum very clearly but it is a very simple aluminium side entry type, and the pipe running up the side of the engine goes straight into it. In fact, here's a cad model:
http://www.engineers.auckland.ac.nz/~mgra128/engine_1.jpg

And to answer the final question, the pulley is rigidly bolted onto the end of the crank

[JR @ CFS]

Looking at Uni of Aucklands set up, Chalmers was something similar. But, in the end, we found using a SC a waste of time. It added weight (even more when you added the intercooler) and complexity and to get the most out of the performance of a supercharger on an NA engine, you need to completely change the cam's. We found that in reality it was a blacksmiths tool i.e. a hammer, rather than good engineering. Thats why CFS07 went from being supercharged at FSUK07, to NA at FSAE-W08. On direct comparison between the two, the NA was preferred and performed better!

But, if you want more information, speak with MTTech on here. He did all the work and is at BMW now.

[MalcolmG]

Originally posted by JR @ JLR:
Looking at Uni of Aucklands set up, Chalmers was something similar. But, in the end, we found using a SC a waste of time. It added weight (even more when you added the intercooler) and complexity and to get the most out of the performance of a supercharger on an NA engine, you need to completely change the cam's. We found that in reality it was a blacksmiths tool i.e. a hammer, rather than good engineering. Thats why CFS07 went from being supercharged at FSUK07, to NA at FSAE-W08. On direct comparison between the two, the NA was preferred and performed better!

But, if you want more information, speak with MTTech on here. He did all the work and is at BMW now.

That's an interesting take on things, I strongly disagree and think the value/cost of using a supercharger depends highly on how you implement it and what you do to capitalise on the benefits it gives.

[Dumonde08]

To MalcolmG:Thanks a lot! That excatly what I'm looking for. The 2nd generations looks very good,I think it would be possible to fit an air to air IC between the SC and the intake manifold. Also exhaust piping is interesting but I understand that it is the only precautions of heating the suction by the exhaust and it is also much shorter than piping below the engine's crankcase. Don't you now how many +horsepowers you really get out of it?This is my last question :-) Thank you so much for pics one more time.

[MalcolmG]

well the supercharger reduces maximum possible power if anything, because you can still choke the restrictor without a supercharger, and rotating the supercharger uses some of the engine's energy. It does make for a very drivable powerband and very fast throttle response, which is the major reason for our use of it.

[JR @ CFS]

Yep, I agree with you. Implementation is the key part. Bolting an SC to an NA engine and hoping it will improve your performance (which it does to a certain degree) massively is niave. Looking at how you can adapt an NA engine to maximise the SC and implementing those changes, will certainly pay off. I'd like to see a strong arguement for it after my own personal experience. I look forward to seeing FE figures too http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I'll make sure to leave my prejudice in the parking lot when I see you at FSAE-A09 http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MalcolmG]

Are Chalmers coming to the comp, or are you coming in some other capacity? What we're doing this year is very different to what we've done in the past, and it is largely in an attempt to improve fuel economy. Not yet sure whether it'll even include a supercharger this year

[JR @ CFS]

In another capacity. I packed in my job at Jaguar and decided to go travelling. I'll have a semi-permanent base in Melbourne from July though. I believe Chalmers are also looking at some trick stuff this year for ímproved FE. That rule put a stop to our idea of fitting a 5th injector pre-SC.

See you there.