Poll: What kind of clutch do you prefer?

[poe21]

Our team has switched back and forth over the years and I was just wondering how many different teams are running different clutch setups. I am extremely partial to a simple foot clutch since I feel it is much more natural and keeps hands on the wheel (at least for the launch and if you get into trouble). So what do you run/prefer?

-Foot Clutch
-Hand Clutch behind steering wheel
-Hand Clutch on Shifter
-Hand Clutch on Side Impact Member
-Etc.

Also, If you have reasoning, I wouldn't mind hearing it. I'll give you some of mine if you wish.

[poe21]

Our team has switched back and forth over the years and I was just wondering how many different teams are running different clutch setups. I am extremely partial to a simple foot clutch since I feel it is much more natural and keeps hands on the wheel (at least for the launch and if you get into trouble). So what do you run/prefer?

-Foot Clutch
-Hand Clutch behind steering wheel
-Hand Clutch on Shifter
-Hand Clutch on Side Impact Member
-Etc.

Also, If you have reasoning, I wouldn't mind hearing it. I'll give you some of mine if you wish.

[The_Man]

Our team also debated this point a lot.
Eventually we let our drivers decide on the clutch position, which I think is the thing to do. Their argument was that they have mostly driven manual 3 pedal cars, and hence having a foot clutch made most sense. This would save precious testing time, as the driver wouldn't take too much time to get use to the system.

Personally I would vote for hand clutch behind the steering. A foot clutch complicates the front chassis design a lot. It has to wider to accommodate 3 pedals and not be packaged too tightly as to allow the movement of the right foot between the 2 pedals. One more problem we had was we had to slightly offset the steering column to the left, to allow more right foot movement. This is not easy and causes all sorts of problems with the template rule.

The Hand shifter anywhere away from the steering wheel is my least preferred option. I have driven our first car that was a clutch on shifter type, It would have taken a very long time getting used to and I do not think it is easy to shift and press the clutch at the same time. Caused the disengaging to be rather discrete. When I think about it I would want to shift midway through a corner I want to get my hands back on the steering as soon as possible. Only a foot clutch and hand clutch behind steering allow me that.

[RollingCamel]

We are thinking either 3 pedals or clutch behind the steering wheel. I'd prefer the second method but it will take a lot for the driver to master it.
Btw, is left foot braking beneficial to fsae cars? I know that it is useful in FWD cars.

[Luniz]

From my point of view, the shifting concept defines whether you are using a foot- or hand clutch. When your shifting mechanism requires the clutch to be actuated at every shift (or every downshift) I would go for a third pedal.
In our case, actuating the clutch is only necessary for launching the vehicle and therefor we have a hand actuated clutch.
Left foot braking in a racing vehicle is not a big deal from my experience, since you almost always slam on the brakes as hard as you can, other than in a road car where you try to brake smoothly.

[Poe]

I believe that a third pedal is the way to go. Maybe I've lived a sheltered life, but I've never seen any other type of car with a hand operated clutch. I think that a foot clutch is more intuitive for the driver and easier to find in panic situations, especially for newer drivers.

With the new template rules, space for the pedal should no longer be a concern. We fit three pedals before there was a template rule (other than percy). I always left foot braked when I was driving and only used the clutch for starting and stopping.

[RollingCamel]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luniz:
Left foot braking in a racing vehicle is not a big deal from my experience, since you almost always slam on the brakes as hard as you can, other than in a road car where you try to brake smoothly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From my experience.....with LFS..... is quite useful in high speed turns in FWD cars. The weight transfer would give the front wheel more traction and rear less so it reduce understeer pointing the car into the racing line.

[RollingCamel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDfDTp0Y7g

[exFSAE]

We had always used a hand clutch behind the steering wheel.

But the more I think of it, that's really not a great solution. Primary reason being its almost impossible to disengage quickly if you've got a lot of wheel input and the car starts to spin.

[AxelRipper]

Recently we've been running a hand clutch on the shifter. I find it very easy to use, and if you get into trouble, its actually really easy to find. I've never understood the 3 pedal thing on these cars. It just seems to me to be added weight and not really necessary when you only have to use it for launches.

Now in the past we ran an electric shifter in 05-6 that i'm not sure how the clutch was actuated on, as it's always had the mechanical linkage on it since i've been here, and the electric shifter is in shambles. Also, in 07 we ran a hydraulic clutch mounted behind the steering wheel with a manual shift linkage. It seems like a good idea, but the problem I see with it is how it sticks out off of our steering column. I've always had problems getting in and out of the car with my knee hitting it. It seems like i'm the only one having this problem most of the time, but it's just one thing to consider.

[blister]

We had hand clutches for two years and last year we had a foot clutch for the first time.

The layout was such that the clutch pedal was very far on the left. We had left foot braking and working semi-automatic shifting. The clutch was only used for acceleration and slow speed maneuvering.

I think that was by far the best solution and is a good decision by looking at the "new" template rules!

[Dsenechal]

We have had hand clutches mounted on the right side impact bars for the last 2 years. From a chassis standpoint, you have to widen up the front end a lot to accommodate the third pedal, plus make room to move feet between pedals. Our rack is mounted up high, so moving feet would require lengthened nose as well.

Just let the drivers practice with the hand clutch. It almost becomes natural!

[Dash]

I would vote for the third pedal.
Reasoning behind this:
1. I happen to already drive a manual truck so this is most natural to me.
2. our car has always had plenty of room in the front, no matter what some of the team members say.( they must have really fat feet )
3. This car is supposed to be designed for a "weekend racer", who most likely already knows how to operate a foot clutch.

also, I don't see much of a weight difference between the foot and hand clutch. Unless you are having to make chassis adjustments with it.

[Hector]

I personally don't like having to take my hands off the wheel to clutch the car in the case of a spin. Therefore, I personally prefer a foot clutch to a hand clutch. I've driven 1 car with foot clutch and 2 with hand clutch.

As far as left foot braking goes: I love it. I drive automatic and FS cars this way because it just feels so much better.

[Dash]

nm

[poe21]

Wow, go to bed and wake up with a lot of replies. Thanks for the input and keep them coming.

I will weigh in a little with some of my thoughts which have already been spoken for the most part. The main issue for me is clutching when you get into trouble. Even a hand clutch behind the steering wheel means you have to take one hand off the wheel to grasp it especially if you are in any kind of turn. I don't want to have to drive one handed with no power steering while fighting the car to keep it (or stop it) from spinning. Also as a powertrain guy, I don't want anybody counter rotating my precious motor because they couldn't find the clutch.

With the new template rules, I find it to be very hard to argue that you don't have room. Maybe some other teams are able to shrink their nose by some magical way that we have yet to discover, but as of right now, we barely meet template, and we have plenty of room.

Of course I will say that it is a lot more natural to drive a foot clutch and it is still very simple to left foot brake. Once again, foot clutch FTW.

[Adambomb]

With the exception of our '09 car, we've run a left-hand clutch and solid linkage shifter since 2005. A left-hand clutch is quite natural once you get used to it...especially if you ride a motorcycle (that's what they use, after all). I will definitely say that there is a learning curve with the forward-back motion of the hand shifter, and it took me a long time to overcome random fits of shift dyslexia. But once you get used to it it's fine. In fact, I think I might add some sort of big pictograph or something near the shifter to help prevent further outbreaks of shift dyslexia. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Getting to the clutch in a spin is largely a function of placement. We've had some that were easy, some that weren't so easy. As far as taking your hand off the wheel to shift, as long as you make your steering light I've found it's really not a big deal.

We tried an electric shifter in '09 with a left hand clutch in conjunction with a slipper clutch (only needed the clutch to launch), but the unit was nearly 4 lbs, cost like $600, and both drivers ended up stuck in 3rd gear during autocross. Also couldn't get to neutral. We planned on running a very basic mechanical backup, but never got time to install it (that would also fix the neutral problem).

I've found this very strong relationship at ISU: there are people who insist on a third pedal, and there are people who have driven the car. With only a couple minor exceptions, these groups are almost mutually exclusive.

[Wesley]

We haven't run a foot-clutch since at least 2004, perhaps earlier. It adds foot movement, requires you to coordinate footwork MUCH more than just keeping right on green and left on red.

We ran a scissor-style behind-wheel clutch for 4 years in a row, then tried a side mounted hand clutch (which very few people liked because you had to move your hands. In fact, most people that got in the new car for the first time said they kept grabbing for the back of the steering wheel cause that's where they were used to it being.

With that said, we only use it when we're in pit lanes, or in a spin. We've run a pneumatic system since '06 and never looked back. Just give yourself lots of drive time to iron out the inevitable leaks. Pushbutton shift and launch clutch makes it easier, plus allows a secondary rev limiter with minimal circuitry.

Nobody we've ever had on the team has ever said "gee it would be much easier with a third pedal." because your hands just point naturally. Any of you who had an NES know this. They can handle a clutch without much extra work or movement, whereas dancing around with your right foot increases your odds of catching the edge of the wrong pedal.

Practice can reduce that, but with a hand clutch you will NEVER accidentally engage it or tap the brake unnecessarily.

[poe21]

Some good points made Adam, and Wes. I was just wondering if you were able to have the hand clutch rotate with the steering wheel. This seems nearly impossible to me while maintaining the quick release, but maybe I am thinking too inside the box. I would be much more inclined to the hand clutch if it didn't move in relation to hand placement.

A couple of points I had while reading your answers (some of which I can see and even agree with). I will prelude these statements with the idea that I am not starting a fight (nor do I discard any thoughts you have already stated), only playing a little devils advocate.

First off, the motorcycle clutch is on handlebars which I consider a different game as you can still grip the clutch, and use both hands to turn.

Secondly, what about the guy that gets into the car for the first time, and counter rotates the motor, mushing half my valves? He may be a good driver, but has never driven a car with a hand clutch behind the steering wheel. No matter how much practice you plan on getting, it still seems that you are playing with fire a little.

Lastly "dancing around with your right foot" is not something we plan on doing. We don't plan to use the clutch to shift, only to launch, and when we get into trouble. I and everybody else who plans on driving the car WILL be left foot braking. It is not hard to move your left foot, and there is plenty of room to move around. Proper pedal design should also keep you from pushing two at the same time. Accidentally engaging the clutch is much less of a concern for me than accidentally smoking the motor.

Maybe it is preference, or even what you have done in the past. Our 2008 had a behind the wheel clutch. Our 2009 had a crappy foot clutch. The choice of either still leads me to the foot clutch. It is about a half and half team decision at the moment. That is part of the reason I posted this.

--------------------------------------------

After posting this I thought about the fact that I was assuming we would be able to clutch with our left foot and brake with our right foot during a spin. I know that I did it a few times last year, but in reality, that is not as common as I might assume. I will therefore conclude that it is little safer to drive with a foot clutch than with a hand clutch, although I stand by the fact that it is much more driver intuitive no matter how much Mario Kart you have played. Just thought I might fess up to my incorrect thought process.

One thing that I meant to mention much earlier, is that since we run a 10 inch steering wheel, getting good leverage on the behind the wheel clutch is maybe a little harder, while it is easy to clutch with your foot. Once again I will agree that our design could probably use improvement, but there are packaging issues in both places. Hope I am not idiotizing this thread!

[MalcolmG]

Seems like you've already made up your mind and want people to back up your arguments so you can convince your team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

We've never had a foot clutch, our first car ('04) had a shifter on the left of the cockpit which had an integrated clutch, in '05 and '06 we had an electric shifter with a clutch lever behind the steering wheel, and from '07 to '09 we still had an electric shifter, but moved the clutch to the side of the cockpit, which is my preference.

We've never really had any big issues with the placement where it is - I have found that less experienced drivers find it difficult to modulate the clutch for starting off, but for most it becomes second nature in no time. I think placing it there is the easiest to package and keeps it out of the driver's way when it's business time.

I think it's actually good having something as far-removed from a regular car as possible, because it stops people doing things they might do instinctively - an example of this I think is our '04 car: because it has a manual shifter, which is on the same side as a shifter in a road car (for those of us who live in RHD countries), the majority of people that drive it for the first time will regularly smash the brake pedal because they're trying to use it as a clutch. In any of our newer cars, which with the paddle shifter and two-pedal box are much more like arcade/playstation/computer games, people don't have anywhere near as much difficulty with phantom clutching with their left foot.

[Adambomb]

+1 to Malcolm. I'd say more than anything, it does depend on what you're used to. And there are some newbies that can't seem to figure out how to get the car forward no matter what kind of clutch it has. And some of them are even competent autocrossers with manual trans cars. It is SOOOOOO painful to teach some people how to feather a clutch (usually resorting in us telling them to let it out as slowly as they can...then they take 10 seconds to get to the beginning of the friction zone and promptly dump it and kill it). Maybe it's the high idle, I don't know.

Although I will agree that it's not as easy to get to a hand clutch in a spin. We've had that happen a couple times, so far the worst result has been a bent starter shaft (still worked for another few months, just stuck a little). Another solution to that problem is just making a car that's not quite so spin-happy! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

As for taking one hand off the wheel to shift, you're doing the same thing when you race any car with a conventional manual trans anyway. I've never had a problem steering with one hand. Grabbing the clutch for a downshift is no more work while you're there too, works in one swift motion. In fact, switching to our wheel-mounted electric shift setup threw me off since I wasn't used to it, and actually had to think about what I was doing again. But I guess that's just more proof that the biggest factor in what "works" for you is what you're used to.

[Matthew Bell]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalcolmG:
We've never really had any big issues with the placement where it is - I have found that less experienced drivers find it difficult to modulate the clutch for starting off, but for most it becomes second nature in no time. I think placing it there is the easiest to package and keeps it out of the driver's way when it's business time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to use somebody else's words as my own, but yes, yes I will do that.

Being an automatic driver (yes, I know, it's not cool. Thanks dad...), and being a left-foot braker, I've driven full-size cars with a manual in competition. Not much fun when you put the clutch in trying to hit the brakes. Makes a real nice smell.

The hand clutch does take practice, but it's nice to use once you get the hang of it. The key point is that you're only using it during launch and in a spin.

Well, I kind of lost where I was going with that one, it really just comes down to personal preference. I prefer the hand clutch. Just clutch in, rev the engine, roll your fingers until you get grip, and then slowly ease it the rest of the way free. And then there's less to think about.

[Pete Marsh]

I think you might be overlooking an important point here. During a spin, the driver should apply BOTH the brake and the clutch! If you just grab clutch the car will roll backwards off the racing surface at speed. VERY dangerous.
If the pedals are both designed for left foot use for both pedals how do they do this? Also how do you hold brake, clutch and full throtle all on at the same time for a hard start on a slope?

Unless you have an oil pressure cam chain tensioner valve clearance should be much the same in both directions. Starters don't like the big rpm though.

We use a manual LHS gear shift and clutch lever. Clutching on downshift is achieved in one motion. We have run electric shift padles behind the steering wheel with fully automatic clutch function in the past. This is by far the best solution I have seen for function and ergo. An absolute joy to use. Heavy, expensive and unreliable though.

Pete

[poe21]

I knew I was opening a can of worms http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, and that's okay by me. I like to see the differing opinions on this kind of subject. I will agree that I am probably more partial to driving the foot clutch having driven both setups. I don't know who has and who has not, but I wonder how many people have actually driven both setups regularly. I am not going to wait 3 years for a link to pop up, but if you go to stuttgart's webpage, and look at their 2008 car, it has a very nice 3 pedal setup. The brake pedal is smack in the middle, and capable of being easily reached by either foot without hitting the clutch accidentally. Well as I explained earlier, if you understand left foot braking with a clutch pedal, you will be able to hit the clutch and brake at the same time.

I have yet to see any courses with a steep incline that I have need to worry about clutching, revving, and braking all at the same time, but of course I haven't been everywhere.

I may just have the jones for a foot pedal, but I will give reasoning for everything. If I were before a panel of judges, I would do the same, so I find this to be good practice. I still would fight the "easiest to package" theory, since you have a need to pull the steering wheel out to keep from bashing your hand against the clutch, and putting it on the side impact means a wider cockpit to fit template rules. I will be satisfied with a hand clutch as long as it is done properly, and not just slapped on the steering column without any previous though or design. I have familiarized myself with the one on the 2008 and can launch/maneuver just fine, it still just isn't comfortable in a spin if you ask me.

[Fred G]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
We have run electric shift padles behind the steering wheel with fully automatic clutch function in the past. This is by far the best solution I have seen for function and ergo. An absolute joy to use. Heavy, expensive and unreliable though.

Pete </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Pete, best clutching solution is have no clutch at all. Driver can just concentrate on driving fast.

[mech5107]

We use hydraulic hand clutch on the LH side...never had a problem, pretty simple setup, light and cheap.

For shifting we use push buttons on the wheel, both on the RH side, one over the other. Never mis-sifted or lose a gear, fast to master and easy to use, although may seem strange...

Also on the wheel, on LH side we have the launch control actuation button, so left hand can hold the clutch, engage 1st and hold the launch button.

[MalcolmG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by poe21:
....and putting it on the side impact means a wider cockpit to fit template rules. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Disagree. I made a nice slimline clutch lever for our car in '08 that protruded less than 50mm from the side of the cockpit, and didn't require any changes to our existing chassis design to pass templates (maybe something to do with the shape of a monocoque versus spaceframe though I guess)

[Wesley]

Poe,

We ran a column mounted paddle clutch that rotated with the wheel for '04-'08, then with the template rules we switched to a frame-tube mounted hand clutch. Nobody liked that, so this year we went back to a behind wheel clutch redesigned to clear the template.

As for counter-rotating the motor, most newbie drivers we've had (myself included back in the day) were so freaked out by their first spin that they just locked up the brakes until it came to a stop. The habit to grab for the clutch develops really quickly, in my opinion. These cars are so far removed from anything I drive in real life that it's simple to learn new behaviors. When we switched to the right hand frame-tube mounted clutch, it took me a good 10-12 skidpad runs on our first testing day to develop the habit to grab for it.

Of course that car was a lot different than the previous ones. Trying to listen for 10k RPM on a two cylinder to shift was a lot harder than 13k on a four. Everyone on the team constantly bounced it off the limiter for the first few drive days, then started watching the shift light.

[poe21]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalcolmG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by poe21:
....and putting it on the side impact means a wider cockpit to fit template rules. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Disagree. I made a nice slimline clutch lever for our car in '08 that protruded less than 50mm from the side of the cockpit, and didn't require any changes to our existing chassis design to pass templates (maybe something to do with the shape of a monocoque versus spaceframe though I guess) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Y'all had template rules in 2008? That sucks

[MalcolmG]

not quite, we built our '08 car to meet template requirements to leave the option of entering a competition elsewhere in 2009 with the car. We made that decision early in 2008, before the 2009 rules were released which allowed non-compliant cars to compete. Fortunately, apart from aesthetics I don't think there's really anything lost from making a car template-compliant.

[poe21]

Yeah there are a few things to be gained actually. Like weight, and headaches with the steering column. Just kidding.

Wes, you got any pics of the clutch rotating with the steering wheel? did you maintain the quick release? If you wish do be discrete about it, you don't have to show me, or you could send it via e-mail so as to not blast it all over the forum.

[2BWise]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred G:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
We have run electric shift padles behind the steering wheel with fully automatic clutch function in the past. This is by far the best solution I have seen for function and ergo. An absolute joy to use. Heavy, expensive and unreliable though.

Pete </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with Pete, best clutching solution is have no clutch at all. Driver can just concentrate on driving fast. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with the above. One thing that wasn't mentioned was the capacity at which you are using the clutch. By far the best implementation is to have the clutch actuated automatically during the gearshift. Allows the driver to focus on threshold braking without the added complication focusing on the shift. We ran a pneumatically operated clutch with our push button setup with an additional mechanical operation for launches and spins. When driving there were no worries operating the clutch as it was automatic with the downshift.

[Hector]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 2BWise:
I agree with the above. One thing that wasn't mentioned was the capacity at which you are using the clutch. By far the best implementation is to have the clutch actuated automatically during the gearshift. Allows the driver to focus on threshold braking without the added complication focusing on the shift. We ran a pneumatically operated clutch with our push button setup with an additional mechanical operation for launches and spins. When driving there were no worries operating the clutch as it was automatic with the downshift. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who clutches to shift? I've never found it necessary.

[Kirby]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MalcolmG:
apart from aesthetics I don't think there's really anything lost from making a car template-compliant </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

which is really my (and most peoples) only complaint with templates.

[2BWise]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hector:
Who clutches to shift? I've never found it necessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've almost always used the clutch for downshifts. Granted its not necessary, but I've run into issues with axle hop when threshold braking and downshifting without the clutch. The car feels more settled when using the clutch than without. Our cars have generally been setup so that clutching is automatic with a downshift.

[RenM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by poe21:
I am not going to wait 3 years for a link to pop up, but if you go to stuttgart's webpage, and look at their 2008 car, it has a very nice 3 pedal setup. The brake pedal is smack in the middle, and capable of being easily reached by either foot without hitting the clutch accidentally. Well as I explained earlier, if you understand left foot braking with a clutch pedal, you will be able to hit the clutch and brake at the same time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our 2009 car has only 2 pedals and a hand clutch behind the steering wheel and all of our drivers very much prefer this solution.

Clutch actuating during down shift is realized with a pneumatic cylinder.

[poe21]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RenM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by poe21:
I am not going to wait 3 years for a link to pop up, but if you go to stuttgart's webpage, and look at their 2008 car, it has a very nice 3 pedal setup. The brake pedal is smack in the middle, and capable of being easily reached by either foot without hitting the clutch accidentally. Well as I explained earlier, if you understand left foot braking with a clutch pedal, you will be able to hit the clutch and brake at the same time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our 2009 car has only 2 pedals and a hand clutch behind the steering wheel and all of our drivers very much prefer this solution.

Clutch actuating during down shift is realized with a pneumatic cylinder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many thanks for the input, and hope I didn't offend by speaking about your car without asking for input.

I am starting to second guess my earlier statements after all your comments and some thoughts. I do believe on paper the third pedal looks appealing to me, but I am beginning to see the simplicity of a hand actuated clutch. I will say that I was somewhat persuaded to dislike the hand clutch based on having driven the 2008 car with a poorly actuated hand lever. I think that with good placement, and a slower learning curve, that a hand clutch is a probable setup for these cars. I like left foot stop ... right foot go, don't move 'em. I don't know that our car will realize a automatic, hydraulic or pneumatic actuated clutch until after I am gone. We just don't have the man power at the moment.

[Adambomb]

OK, had to throw this in...originally wanted to make it a surprise, but it's currently in the stage of "may or may not fly" based on ergonomic reports of non-interested third parties (meaning not me, whose idea it was, or our current stand-in controls team leader, who hates it). I know you've seen so-called "pistol grip shifters" before, but I'm going to guess never quite like this:

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs035.snc3/12292_737820988830_16912542_42861687_4394037_n.jpg

That's a pistol grip for an AR-15, costs $6, and is made out of hollowed-out short fiber injection molded fiberglass. Weighs almost nothing and has an ergonomic shape. Unfortunately it's mounted "upside down," as in the mounting point that would normally be vertically oriented upwards is now downwards, but we'll see how it plays out. The big slot in the front is for a matching CNC'd clutch lever that recesses into the handle when pulled. Will have to get complete assembled pics soon...

[Poe]

We used a foot clutch for the five years I was in school, but the team decided to switch to a hand clutch in the years after I graduated. They are switching back to a foot clutch this year, but I'm not sure their reasoning. My point is, don't do something just because everyone else is doing it - if you feel more comfortable with a foot clutch, then go that route. It's all in what you justify for yourselves as a team.

I will say that none of our drivers ever had any problem with three pedals and left foot braking. We could rev match if needed, but most of the time it was up and down shift without the clutch, and never a problem with chattering the tires on downshifts.

[Hector]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 2BWise:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hector:
Who clutches to shift? I've never found it necessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've almost always used the clutch for downshifts. Granted its not necessary, but I've run into issues with axle hop when threshold braking and downshifting without the clutch. The car feels more settled when using the clutch than without. Our cars have generally been setup so that clutching is automatic with a downshift. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Slipper clutches are your friend.