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Soumya
03-02-2014, 02:36 AM
Hello all,

I am Soumya Kanti Bose. I was the convener for 'Delta Shootout 2014', a BAJA competition which was held between 24-26th Jan,2014 in Jamshedpur, India. Claude Rouelle, Steve Fox & Pat Clarke were present at the event as advisors and they also mentored us since September 2013 to organise this event.

This event was just a 'shakedown' for us ( Indian Alumnis of FS/Baja competitions) to assess where we stand to organise a event on our own. There has been thousands of emails and forum posts for a long time regarding the need of a proper event in India. An event which is safe, open and fair for all participants and where the focus is on engineering education, not wheel-to-wheel racing or job placements. This discussion was fuelled after Claude's exclusion from Buddh International Circuit in September 2012, during a event which is supposed to be the Indian edition of FSAE/Formula Student.

Claude, Steve & Pat have tried a lot to improve the situation and help out the Indian students, however, they can only help till a certain point. It is upto us ( the Indian student community). For sure we have experienced a lot of things in events organised by a certain organisation in India since 2007 and we did moan about it. However, did we act on it?

There have been instances where the alumni of certain competitions were not happy and they went on to host their own competition. A competition which is 'by the students, for the students'. To improve the Indian scenario we needed something like that.

The point that there are 12 registered teams in India in FSG triggered a discussion regarding whether there should be an Indian event for the new teams to compete at first or not?

I am not going to comment on whether these teams can be any good or not, however, the fact that they beat much more experienced teams in the selection process which has been accepted as fair and square by the whole FS community all across the world, shows that these teams were atleast better in that area. The fact is these 12 teams represent a miniscule part of the student community in India who are involved in FS/FSAE/BAJA.

There are 327 known teams in BAJA and 174 Supra ( Indian edition of FSAE - albeit very different ) teams all across India.

Are all these teams good? NO

Correct me if am wrong gentlemen ( and ladies) the spirit of FS/FSAE/BAJA competitions is to help young engineers learn. Is it not?

We cannot say that just because a team does not know their polar moment of inertia or Drag/lift co-efficient they cannot come and compete. If we do not help them in learning then why we are doing this? Sure we all love to see a good car and a team of brilliant engineers, but all teams are not equal , neither are all team members.

There were 12 cars at 'Delta Shootout 2014'. Some of the cars were REAL bad. It was evident that the teams did not read the rulebook AT ALL. However, the tech inspectors ( most of them were alumnis from FS/BAJA competitions all over the world) did not have an approach of " Your car is non-compliant- you are not going to run". The tech inspectors talked to the teams and made them realise that what they have done is wrong and not acceptable. No plea bargain is going to get them through.

The TI team also helped the teams with their assessments on the situation and how the car can be made scrutiny legal. The TI process went on for 3 days and inspectors were working for 18-20 hours DAILY. At last 8 cars made it through TI. 2 cars were disqualified due to violation of safety rules and 2 cars failed tech scrutiny. Ofcourse the level of the cars were quite disappointing , but the students were made to realise that they need to stick to the rules.

For people outside India who are reading this, you must be thinking that 'following the rules' is a given. It is, however, since 2007 the Indian students have been shown otherwise. Rules are violated and prizes are awarded without any results classification. That was ( and still is) the practice.

However, now we have proved that it is possible to hold a event "for the students by the students'.


Now, the alumni are working together to make 'Formula Student India' happen. The tentative competition dates are 3rd weekend of January, 2015.

We will accept 32 entries based on a rules quiz and there will be 5 reserved spots for team which have won any FSAE/FS or similar competition in the year of 2014.

All information related to the competition can be found on www.formulastudent.in starting from 23rd March,2014.

We are looking for volunteers from among the Indian alumni/ Industry professionals to help us run this event.

triton
03-03-2014, 12:57 PM
Great initiative !

The corrupt SAE India has destroyed the educational scene in India instead of improving it. Its sad to see teams who get their entire vehicle fabricated from outside win events at SAE competitions. I am looking forward to take part in your event :) Please don't hesitate to contact me, if you need any help in Chennai.

Claude Rouelle
03-03-2014, 01:00 PM
Please guys have the courtesy to introduce your self. Your name, which university you are in or from. At least put in in your profile and/or your post signature

Silverbolt
03-04-2014, 04:25 AM
Finally a great opportunity for all those teams who aspired to participate in a proper Formula Student event. Thankyou for letting us know!

No offense Mr. Claude, but a username can also be used as an alias. Not everyone wants to reveal their identity on the internet, well atleast not me. Since you had compelled me to introduce, I had done that already. But please do not expect everyone to do the same. :)

Claude Rouelle
03-04-2014, 06:13 AM
Silverbolt, Oh come on! This forum is not different than a face to face conversation only that it allows to reduce the distance. Would you come to a real meeting / conversation with a mask? Yes, you have the freedom do use an alias but do not expect the same level of help. What do you have to hide? Introducing your self is just a matter of fairness.

Soumya
03-04-2014, 06:21 AM
Silverbolt & Triton

Claude is correct. It is great to see that you are interested in our initiative. However, it is helpful to know who are interested ( Name, Place, Name of uni/college etc).

So if you could introduce yourself that would be nice. We do need volunteers to help us run the show. So until and unless we know who we are talking to it is difficult for us.


Also, if you have any suggestions that YOU feel the education experience for the students, please share with us. Rest assured, all reasonable suggestions will be taken into account.

Ray19
03-04-2014, 07:21 AM
Hi Soumya,
First of all I would like to thank you for taking up this great initiative. Secondly, is the venue decided? I would love to help out if I can. Also have you guys been in contact with teams regarding this? Considering that the competition is early next year the teams should have started working on their cars already. Apart from some the teams going international, are there other teams working towards this competition and its rule set?

triton
03-04-2014, 12:41 PM
@Claude and Soumya: I'm not very comfortable with disclosing my identity on the internet. I have PM'd you an introduction as you were interested in getting to know me.

Soumya
03-04-2014, 01:55 PM
@Ray19

To respond to your questions:

1. The venue has not been finalised yet. We have 2-3 probable sites to hold the competition. We are in the process of finalising the safety requirements ( sufficient run-off area, no poles/trees next to track, condition of surface, available area for pits/event control room/service park/static event area etc). The event venue will be finalised within March/ early April based on meeting safety criteria & other requirements. We WILL NOT be holding the event on any race track or allowing the students to go wheel-to-wheel racing.

2. We appreciate your interest to help us. We do need volunteers ( especially among the student community). Please write to us on contact@deltainc.net.in if you want to volunteer for the events in 2015.

3. The alumni group is working together to form the rules, operational procedure, PR, sponsorship and other things to make the event a successful one ( even more successful than 'Delta Shootout 2014'). There are multiple teams who know of this competition. We made the announcement regarding 'Formula Student India' during prize distribution ceremony of 'Delta Shootout 2014' and the logo was unveiled on the last day of 'Delta Training Seminar' - a 5 day training seminar taught by Pat Clarke, Steve Fox & Claude Rouelle in Kolkata.

The formal press launch will be held by end of Mrach,2014.

We are also planning to hold citywise informal meets with the teams related to this via our Alumni group. We will be sending out emails regarding that shortly.

3. 'Formula Student India 2015' shall take place under full compliance to 2014 FSAE rules. This event will not be the first FS event for 2015 calendar year. This event will be the last event under 2014 rules. Same process will be repeated over the coming years. Hence, teams who go to International competitions can bring their 2014 car.

This presents them with a golden opportunity to test some more and troubleshoot teething problems of the 2014 car before they proceed to finish the build/testing of their 2015 car for International competitions. Claude has already pointed out WHY testing is so important in 'Teams from India' thread on page 56 & 57.

Also, the teams who go to international events can use 'Formula Student India' as a training ground for their new recruits. Have them trained directly at a real FS competition where the focus is on education of students in engineering design. Not on wheel-to-wheel racing or placement promises.

We look forward to particiaption of Manipal at the event. Some of the other international teams has already confirmed their participation. This is already on their calendar.

Soumya
03-04-2014, 01:58 PM
@triton

I have received your PM and I will contact you shortly. We plan to hold a meet for local teams in your city in April. An informal event where the alumni will meet the students and we will listen to your concerns/problems/suggestions related to 'Formula Student India'.

If you feel you/your team would be interested to host this (Please note this is an informal event & requires just one room in your college for couple of hours), please let us know.

Ray19
03-04-2014, 03:05 PM
@Soumya
Thank You for the elaborate explanation. I look forward to helping you guys if my college schedule allows so. Also please note that none of my comments represent that of Formula Manipal or my university so please contact the team directly if you want to discuss their participation in your event.

Soumya
03-04-2014, 03:26 PM
Sidhant

I/We understand that it is a team decision to participate in any competition and has to be discussed with everyone involved.

We will be contacting ALL known FS/FSAE/Supra teams within India by end of this month. We also will be holding city wise meets to meet the teams and hear about their expectations/opinions/suggestions. We will be coming to your city/ a nearby city within this month.

Expect to hear from us soon.

Steve Fox
03-04-2014, 04:51 PM
I will say this about Indian student competitors and posting on international forums such as fsae.com, and others...

This is a learning forum. Hopefully students with (meaningful) questions (and answers!) will come here to OPENLY exchange their accumulated knowledge and ideas. The saying: "YOU ONLY GET ONE CHANCE TO MAKE A GOOD FIRST IMPRESSION" is very true... especially here. Whether you realize it or not people who read this forum are judging the posts you write. Thay are judging you by you speling. They is judging you by ur grammar. They r judging u if u use txt shorthand abbreviations. AND, yes they are judging you by your identity, or (more specifically) your lack of credible identity.

If you insist on hiding behind an alias username you will NOT be taken as seriously, and you will NOT gain the respect you want or deserve. You should be proud to stand up and be recognized, not only for your name, but also the school you attend, and the position you hold on a FSAE/FS/Baja team. Usernames are acceptable only IF you disclose proper information in your post signature.

If you want to PM a poster because you truly have something to say to them in private, then go ahead and PM them. I do not need to know that you PM'd them because you announced it for all to see in a post. If you are PM'ing to ask questions about the topic of the post, then post your questions publicly. If you have questions, others likely have similar questions. Publicly asking gets answers for everyone. I should NOT have to explain forums 101 to Indian college students. Please guys.

The sooner you wake up to the realities of being judged in this way by your peers, the sooner you will mature into a responsible student / project team member / graduate engineer / adult / working class stiff, or whatever it is you would like to do with your life.

Soumya, I am sorry for temporarily hijacking your thread, but somebody had to spell it out. Now back to our regularly scheduled program... :-)

I sincerely hope that Indian students are as excited about Delta's FS announcement as I am. This is truly great news! It has the potential to turn out some great WORLD CLASS Indian student competitors.

Soumya
03-05-2014, 01:24 AM
Steve

Point noted and agreed.

major_ashwa
03-05-2014, 01:50 AM
Hello Teams ,
Good to be back on this Forum after 17-7-2006 7:32am
Ladies & Gentleman ,DELTA 's initiative has revived me back into supporting for Indian cause after my battle with SAE India since 2003 .
@all teams : I have seen the genuine intent in the organizers endorsed by our 3 Formula SAE Gods Claude -Pat -Steve (CPS) and supported by Qualified Alumnis having a minimum of 4 year experience teaching & mentoring their respective teams .
I humbly request to create Delta chapters in each city and bring teams together to engage with an authentic International Formula SAE experience in India .


Thank you Soumya and Team CPS : for giving an opportunity to serve and support .
Regards
ARUN RAJ

Mudit
03-06-2014, 10:32 AM
Hi guys,

Indeed this is a much needed initiative. I have closely seen how SAE India works and is the only reason why most of the Indian teams have not improved as much student teams are expected to improve in 5-6 years. I have already heard about the details of the initiative from one of my colleague, Mahek. From what I read above, one of the aim of this initiative is to prepare Indian teams for much tougher international competitions. Going half world far just to find out that the car's build quality is inappropriate or the car doesn't abide 2-3 rules, is really heart breaking and waste of resources. So, great job. Please let me know if I can be of any help.

Some of the Indian teams are now getting into Electric Category as well, teams from IIT Bombay and Vellore. And as I see more shall follow the trend. Is there something planned for these guys as well? If getting through mechanical scrutiny is hard, getting through electric scrutiny and building vehicle that goes through testing rain test is a nightmare.

We were overjoyed just to get to dynamic events in Silverstone. But, after the event we realized if just we had better experience of the event, we could have performed much better.

bob.paasch
03-06-2014, 03:28 PM
I have seen the genuine intent in the organizers endorsed by our 3 Formula SAE Gods Claude -Pat -Steve (CPS)

I find all three of these gentlemen thoroughly enjoyable to talk with, and I count them among my FSAE/FS friends. But Claude, Pat, Steve: I draw the line at worship. ;) ;)

Claude Rouelle
03-07-2014, 01:14 AM
Dr. Paasch,

Only if you kneel will maybe one of us forgive you!

More seriously, I am just one of the 7.2 Billions, just trying to have fun and share my passion. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pat Clarke
03-07-2014, 03:54 AM
Dr Bob,

in nomine patri fili et spiritus sancti...

Oh, that right, I don't believe in that stuff ;-)

Pat

edd_16
03-12-2014, 11:50 AM
Well this surely seems the " you must be there " event.
Soumya please do invite my college for this event it would be a great opportunity for my team to be at such a big event .
I hope Mr. Pat Clarke, Mr. Steve Fox and Mr. Claude Rouelle would be present as well i would really like to be judged by them and be criticized:D
I just wanted to know whether there will be virtual for this event as well ??
My teams represents Northern India Engineering College Delhi.
Awaiting further posts and information:)

Steve Fox
03-12-2014, 07:03 PM
Dr. Bob, If I am a God, then the Oregon State and Auburn U. Baja cars are the Chariots of the Gods. As Indian students asked me what their car should look like, I would pull up pictures of your cars. It would not surprise me if I created a mini baby boom of Oregon Sate/Auburn U. Baja look-alike cars. We will see…

Honestly, I am no more a God than anyone else. I pull my pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else in this world.

Edd_16, Virtual event? No way! A virtual event is the exact opposite of what FSAE was created for. If you want to virtually design something, stay home on the couch. If you want a challenging project designed to improve your engineering skills which automatically puts you in the top 5% of ‘Doers’ then come out and Design, Build, Test and COMPETE in FS-India!

Pat Clarke
03-12-2014, 08:37 PM
Well this surely seems the " you must be there " event.
Soumya please do invite my college for this event it would be a great opportunity for my team to be at such a big event .
I hope Mr. Pat Clarke, Mr. Steve Fox and Mr. Claude Rouelle would be present as well i would really like to be judged by them and be criticized:D
I just wanted to know whether there will be virtual for this event as well ??
My teams represents Northern India Engineering College Delhi.
Awaiting further posts and information:)

Edd_16, I don't think your team needs an invitation. You just lodge your interest on the FSI site when it opens.

Virtual Event? Not a chance!

Pat

Claude Rouelle
03-12-2014, 11:45 PM
Edd_16

Virtual?

Are you kidding?

What are you going to learn with virtual?

FSI as any other FSAE/FS competition is for real engineering students. From concept to reality to endurance and performance. Learn by doing. Lean by competing with real machines, not CAD pictures or Excel spreadsheets which has not been validated by car manufactured by the students (I hope some Indian FS and Baja universities read me well here: I write "made by the students", not by subcontracting by the local mechanics!!!!!!)

If you went virtual there is Supra.

Silverbolt
03-16-2014, 05:31 AM
@Soumya

Can I know the tentative dates for the registration quiz?

Soumya
03-16-2014, 07:12 AM
Website goes live from 25th March, 2014. We have planned for city-wise meets with the teams. Starting with Bangalore. Officials will be present to answer any questions students may have regarding 'Formula Student India' competition or 'Delta Shootout 2015'.

Registration process, quiz format /dates and event calendar will be updated on the website as soon as it goes live. Dates for the city wise meets will be announced too.

happypranav
03-22-2014, 12:26 PM
Edd_16

(I hope some Indian FS and Baja universities read me well here: I write "made by the students", not by subcontracting by the local mechanics!!!!!!)

If you went virtual there is Supra.

SUBCONTRACTING...!

Reasons for subcontracting..

1. Lack of Team spirit
2. No team leader or many team leaders
3. Everyone loves to complaint not complete
4. No body wants RISK, and loves to put risk on others

Only one thing can change this dark present of most Indian teams and that is PASSION

Soumya
03-22-2014, 02:22 PM
SUBCONTRACTING...!

Reasons for subcontracting..

1. Lack of Team spirit
2. No team leader or many team leaders
3. Everyone loves to complaint not complete
4. No body wants RISK, and loves to put risk on others

Only one thing can change this dark present of most Indian teams and that is PASSION


Pranav,

Till date there was no design event in India, where teams had to explain why they chose a particular component ( custom designed or bought off the shelf or made) or how they think their design decision effects the car in real life.

Points were never awarded/deducted on these things. Slowly this went on to become an accepted practice and destroyed the basic idea behind these competitions.

Rest assured that teams will be asked those questions when they come for Formula Student India/ Baja Student India. Full compliance to international rulebook has already been exercised at 'Delta Shootout' & teams had to follow those decisions.

Same thing will happen at all our future competitions.

Claude Rouelle
03-23-2014, 09:22 PM
Pranav,

"Reasons for subcontracting..
1. Lack of Team spirit
2. No team leader or many team leaders
3. Everyone loves to complaint not complete
4. No body wants RISK, and loves to put risk on others
Only one thing can change this dark present of most Indian teams and that is PASSION"

If your (very sad) assessment is correct, than only Indians are the best persons to improve that sad situation. International judges will be help but I do believe much more in inside-out solution than outside-in solution and that is why I can applaud Formula Student India organizers initiative and passion.

devak03
03-24-2014, 06:03 AM
Respected Sir,

@Claude, will there be any difference in the level or importance of event as it is not being held under SAE INDIA.
will it be a part of FSAE International Calender?

Pat Clarke
03-24-2014, 06:33 AM
Devak,
I am sure Claude would agree with me when we ask you to stop the 'Respected Sir' stuff ;-)

If you think about the politics, whilst SAE India exist, it is highly unlikely that FS India can be accepted as part of the world FSAE series. But, what does that matter.

FS India will be a world class event, run fairly and squarely to the world FS/FSAE rules. It will be important because it will be an event run in India primarily for the students, not for the organisers. We have been adamant that there will be no collusion, corruption or unfair treatment of teams and that the whole event will be of world standard in every way.

Of course, that means we expect world standard behaviour from the entrants too! FS India can become one of the best Student Design Competitions in the world on this basis.

The event will be scheduled so it fits into the world calendar and foreign teams will be welcome to enter.

But you are better off directing your questions to Soumya or the FS India management committee as Claude, Steve Fox and I are mere guests, invited as judges and mentors to the event.
Regards

Pat Clarke

Silverbolt
03-24-2014, 07:45 AM
@Devak

I'm sure it will still be way better than SUPRA which is organized by SAE India. If all goes well, FSI will be the premier event for Indian engineering colleges who want to actually learn some real engineering.

Soumya
03-24-2014, 01:39 PM
Respected Sir,

@Claude, will there be any difference in the level or importance of event as it is not being held under SAE INDIA.
will it be a part of FSAE International Calender?

YES. There will be the following difference:

1. There will be a rules quiz based confirmation of entries ( as it happens in FSG- a globally recognised event)
2. There will be NO WHEEL TO WHEEL racing. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
3. International Rules , standard , scoring method and safety protocols will be followed. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
4. There shall be design presentation & business plan presentation finals. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
5. Individual event scores shall be published immediately after end of each day. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
6. Live timing will be there to check the timing of each car as it crosses the line. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)
7. All scoring and ranking shall be open to all and can be subject to review if any protest is received. No individual/ sponsor can/shall dictate the outcome of any event or decide pass/fail of a team through any stage of tech scrutiny. ( as it happens in ANY FSAE/FS event anywhere in the world)

Also, the event shall be held under complete compliance to 2014 FSAE International rules. Hence, ANY car from ANY university which has participated in any FSAE/FS competition anywhere in the world or has built a car which is in compliance with the 2014 FSAE International rules, will be deemed eligible to participate.

The event has been scheduled in such a way that any team from anywhere in the world can compete in this event without clashing with anyother FSAE/FS event.

However, this event is not part of the FSAE official series. Then, there is no student engineering design competition in India which is classified as part of the official SAE International Collegiate Design Series.

Claude Rouelle
03-24-2014, 05:58 PM
Devak,

I have attended all FS/ FSAE competition except one (Hungary) at least once, most of the times 10 to 15 times.

All of them, except previous Indian organizations, reach very well their #1 goal which is to provide an engineering design competition based on a race car concept, design, manufacturing, testing and racing. Whether the letter S, A and E are attached to the competition name is irrelevant to me.

What make a great competition are the organization skills of the people who create the event as well as the passion and the commitment of the pursuit of excellence of the students, and last but not least, the spirit of camaraderie between the teams.

Judging from what I know from FSI 2015 and the people who promote it, I bet this will be the most professionally organized and the most ethically conducted Formula Student ever organized in India. I wish you can be part of it; it will change your life (and I am measure my words), open new horizons for your future, make you belive in yourself even more and give you skills for your career.

Please drop the “Respected Sir”, it actually annoys me. My name is Claude.

The best respect you can give me is by respecting yourself first and then by designing, understand, manufacture, test and race the best possible car you can do.

happypranav
03-25-2014, 04:57 AM
Hello everyone,

I would like all judges and experienced people to share their views on one of the most important topics specifically for Indian Teams.
Is it really required by an Indian team running on tight budget to go for importing parts for their FSAE car?
This question merely divides a good team into two groups affecting their entire spirit. I asked guidance from Judges and experienced
people because Indian Teams highly respect all of them, their guidance may improve management in Indian Teams.
Example:
Is it require for Indian teams to go for FOX suspensions?
Is it require to purchase and invest almost 400 USD in ABC point?
Is it required to go for Willwood calipers?

Will Doing all these really improve chances of performing better for Indian Teams?

Jonny Rochester
03-25-2014, 05:43 AM
For suspension, I would suggest trying DNM shocks (search that on ebay or try http://www.dnmshock.com/). Our team has just purchases new FOX stuff, but I can't be sure how appropriate it is, and I would have chosen DNM for cost. But for this engineering design competition, you are judged on the reasons for your purchase. FOX is not even the best for a car. You can find something much cheaper. Just make sure you provide a reason for your chosen spring rates.

We have Wilwood calipers, but only because they are left over from the old car. You are just as well off using used motorbike brakes.

Pat Clarke
03-25-2014, 06:43 AM
Pranav,

FSI is an educational design competition with a motorsport theme, it is not primarily a motorsport event. So there is much more to getting the best from FSI than building a car and racing it. FSI intends to prepare you for the big 'real world' when you leave University and look for a job in industry. FS and FSAE has been very successful doing this all over the world.

So, spending lots of money buying fancy racing car bits will not impress the judges unless you can convince them you did all the math, made all the comparisons and can justify your choice of these components. There are many different solutions, from buying a product in right up to making your own parts. Many international teams have made their own brake calipers and dampers, a few have even made their own engine. And these teams too had to convince the Judges that such a decision was the best for the team.

The first thing you must understand is the formula for FSI is very free. In essence, if it is not specifically called out in the rules, then that part is free...you can use whatever you like!

Suspension wise, you can use any spring/damper units. Or any other type of suspension if you choose.

The usual selection is for mountain bike shocks, like the Fox units you mention. Fox was once popular, but the newer models are not so suitable for reasons I will mention later.
Currently, the suspension unit of choice is the Ohlins/Cane Creek unit. These are very high quality (expensive) but can be ordered specifically for a FSAE application.
There are two issues with bike shocks, especially cheap ones. Firstly, almost no two are the same. Even with adjustable damping models, it is very difficult to get matched pairs of dampers. Secondly, they usually have a hydraulic lock system that stops the rider wasting pedal energy in compressing the spring ("Pro Pedal" etc). This makes them unsuitable for car use.

Be careful about using shocks with Air Springs as they tend to have a very 'rising' spring rate and the spring rate changes as they get hot (which they do, quite quickly).

There are companies in India that make dampers for the millions of small motorbikes made there. Find who these companies are and approach them with your requirements. Make sure they know what FSI is all about and it is likely you will get some support. DO NOT EMAIL THEM AND HOPE! You need to knock on doors, find the right person and look them in the eye and ask for help. This is also part of the educational benefits of FSI.

Your second point escapes me. What is 'ABC Point' ?

Thirdly, the story with calipers (and rotors and master cylinders etc) is the same as suspension units. Someone is making these units for the motorcycle industry. Find them, knock on the door etc etc. Bill Wood in California makes great brakes at sensible prices, but they are in no way mandatory for FSI.

On the subject of brakes, will you use three or four brakes on the car? If you chose to use three, you need to think about what differential (if any) you use on the car.

Finally, go to Amazon and buy the book 'Learn & Compete'. This is a primer for FS and FSAE teams, written by many senior Judges and Tech Advisors and covers virtually every aspect of building a FSI car and competing at FSI.

Pat Clarke

happypranav
03-25-2014, 06:55 AM
Pranav,



Your second point escapes me. What is 'ABC Point' ?


Pat Clarke

It is Brake pedal assembly.

Pat Clarke
03-25-2014, 07:05 AM
So, Pranav

Based on what I wrote earlier, what do you think?
The rules require a separate front and rear brake system (don't do a road car type diagonal type split), so you will need some way to balanve the brake effort between the front and rear wheels.
Go on, be an engineer and design a system to do that. I know you want to and it will cost way less than $400!

Pat

happypranav
03-25-2014, 07:12 AM
That's my point if you can design ( Brake pedal box) or use a local industry to manufacture shocks as per your damping and spring requirement.
You can use motorcycle brake calipers in effective way available at very low cost. Why you decide to go for imports waste your energy, most valuable time,
and learn nothing than managing customs.
(I think it is basic common sense to be considered by Indian students)

Soumya
03-25-2014, 07:15 AM
Sorry to interrupt Pat.

Pranav, this thread was created to discuss 'Formula Student India'.

There is a separate thread to discuss these matters. You could post under the thread " Teams from India".
http://www.fsae.com/forums/showthread.php?6683-Teams-from-India&highlight=teams+india

Posting irrelevant replies in a thread makes it difficult to navigate for new users on a forum and also diverts the discussion.

happypranav
03-25-2014, 07:17 AM
Sure will take care next time.

The_Man
03-28-2014, 12:04 AM
Folks,

Some Formula Student Alumni and Baja Alumni from India putting together a meeting at RV College in Bangalore this weekend along with the organizing team of Formula Student India and Baja Student India. The aim of this event is to try and meet the students involved in Student Vehicle Design competitions and get some interaction going between the students and the alumni team that is working to put together Formula Student India and Baja Student India.

This event is open to all and if you satisfy any of these criterion below you should definitely attend
- If you are participating / have participated in any of the student vehicle design competition in India.
- If you have participated in the Delta Shootout this year
- If you are considering participating as a team in Formula Student India or Baja Student India
- If you are considering participating / are participating in any of the Baja or FSAE international competitions
- If you are an alumni who is enthusiastic to help us out in the effort to bring International Formula Student and Baja quality to India

Here is the more detailed event information
https://www.facebook.com/events/470036836429642/

We plan to have similar events in other cities in the future, teams for the south zone are highly encouraged to the make it to Bangalore on Sunday.

Soumya
03-30-2014, 02:22 PM
238

A picture from the bangalore meet held on 30th March,2014 at RV College of Engineering.

IIT Madras to host the Chennai meet. Orion Racing is hosting the Mumbai meet on 19th april,2014.

major_ashwa
03-31-2014, 10:47 AM
Hello Soumya,
It was a great initiative of FSI team to organize an informal orientation .I heard it was informative and interactive .Definetly with the feedback received ,FSI organizing team will make it even better and have it in all states of India .
Great going and all the very best .

Regards

Arunraj
Member
Formula Student India

Soumya
04-03-2014, 02:38 AM
'Formula Student India 2015' Rulebook has been published.

http://formulastudent.in/resources/Uploadedimages/Formula_Student_India_Rules_v1.pdf

BeunMan
04-04-2014, 05:56 AM
Comments on your document:

The venue for the competition shall be announced shortly
You might want to set yourself a date there as transportation&destination might be required far in advance. Don't know how difficult it is to get your car from a to b in India but even the short distances in Europe require some planning in advance (e.g. boat tickets to the UK, takes a while if you want to move a truck with 'non specified parts').

On page 6:

These entries will be invitation based only and exempt from Rules Quiz & Registration fees
The first exemption is a no-brainer, but the second one seems a bit arbitrary and somewhat unfair as it's about 850 euros/1000 dollars.

Despite my comments, Looks good though! (except for some spelling errors but I'm not complaining ;))

ABCD
04-07-2014, 04:44 AM
Raftar Formula Racing, IIT Madras hosted the Chennai meet on Saturday. It was a fantastic initiative taken by FS India organizers and specifically Soumya, Mahek and Mudit for taking out time and reaching out to the students. Thank you guys, keep the momentum going and we can sure as hell take FS India to international standard.

It will be our pleasure to host you in future too :D

Eagerly waiting for the venue declaration and rules quiz.

-Rajat
Raftar Formula Racing
IIT Madras

devak03
04-07-2014, 12:27 PM
according to rule A 4.2 it states " Teams which are formed with members from two or more Universities are treated as a single team. A student at any University making up the team may compete at any event where the team participates. The multiple Universities are in effect treated as one University and all eligibility requirements (one car per competition class, one registration slot, etc.) is enforced."

according to the same rule we can form a team of university by collecting students for colleges falling under the same university. according to this article we can merge universities too to form teams.

please look into the matter. quality of the vehicle will be highly improved by this step.

Mudit
04-07-2014, 06:36 PM
Similar topic was raised up in the Chennai meet as well. Indeed its a good idea! rules do not restrict universities from making alliances. If teams can negotiate terms amongst themselves I don't think organizers have any problem with that. GFR is one brilliant example of such an alliance.

On a broader perspective, Formula Student is an institution that helps students to gain experience of running an organization and not alone engineering. Taking decisions to make your organization stronger, which includes making alliance, is also part of that learning experience. So, I think your thoughts are completely inline with the motto of the competition.

All the best on your efforts to raise the quality of your organization, your car.

Also, its a good idea to address rules specific for FSI at rules@formulastudent.in . Don't take my word as official and clear whatever doubts you have there.

JulianH
04-08-2014, 04:05 AM
according to rule A 4.2 it states " Teams which are formed with members from two or more Universities are treated as a single team. A student at any University making up the team may compete at any event where the team participates. The multiple Universities are in effect treated as one University and all eligibility requirements (one car per competition class, one registration slot, etc.) is enforced."

according to the same rule we can form a team of university by collecting students for colleges falling under the same university. according to this article we can merge universities too to form teams.

please look into the matter. quality of the vehicle will be highly improved by this step.

Working together has positive and negative aspects. Especially if you are trying to do "GFR India" (which means the universities are so far apart that the students see themselves only via Skype or comparable tools). Communication is key in FSAE. The team structure gets even more complicated. I would not recommend that for teams without experience.

It is less known than GFR but AMZ Racing is also a team of several universities. Due to the fact there is only one Swiss team so far, we have had students from a lot of different universities: ETH Zurich, UAS Lucerne, UAS Biel/Bienne, University of St. Gallen, UAS Zurich, University of Zurich, UAS Winterthur to name a few :)
Even with short distances (Zurich - Lucerne (where all our electrical engineers are from) is about 45min to drive), it is difficult to get the whole team to one place and it leads to problems especially in the last design or manufacturing days.
We worked a lot in the last years to improve this situation and I think the whole team would gladly support Indian universities that are trying a similar structure, but for starters, I'd suggest keeping it simple.

Yes, you have more people if you put two universities under one roof but it does not necessarily lead to better cars.

Ashir
04-08-2014, 10:40 AM
Its good to know about FSI.

I would like to add to the already mentioned benefits of Formula Student India.

Sponsorship by local companies.
When approaching small companies for Sponsorship in Kind or Money, I very frequently got a question:
"Our market is India. How will sponsoring you in an International event help us ?"

Well of course, the publicity of team in Local Media is one way, which we replied. Some of them did show interest, but most of them were not interested. There is less awareness about FS in Indian Organisations.

With FSI, there will be more publicity in Public and the local companies. They would see for themselves, the event, the teams and most importantly the value of Formula Student.

I would be glad to visit the event. Hopefully as a Team Member (thats team to decide), or as a keen visitor!

Good Luck!

JulianH
04-08-2014, 05:29 PM
Ashir,
it is always difficult to get help from companies, you need to be persistent :)
For example, there are a lot of Swiss companies sponsoring our car that nobody outside Switzerland knows. Like "SR Technics" (they are maintaining the airplanes of "Swiss" airlines) or "EKZ" (the local energy supplier in Zurich). They also don't profit from competitions in Spain or the UK.

But, you as a team must provide the publicity in your local area. Newsletter, car shows, your homepage, articles for the sponsors or in the newspaper, show the car to apprentices of the sponsor, show runs, what ever.

There were more newspapers writing about our roll-out than about our historic victory in Silverstone. Simply, because we invited them to the roll-out. It's not about success, it's about promoting that you are doing something exciting and useful.

Happy Indian
04-16-2014, 11:38 PM
Hi,

On 19th April, 2014 the Mumbai leg of the seminar on 'Formula Student India' & 'BAJA Student India' will be held at KJ Somaiya College of Engineering. The seminar is to create awareness about FSI and BSI and to discuss new rules about the quiz and the events with college teams from the Western region.

Team Orion Racing, the FSAE team of KJ Somaiya College of Engineering & one of the Indian FSAE team with regular international participation is the host for this meet.

The organizers would like to hear in person from the students how they would like to see certain aspects of these events changed to make the events a better educational experience for the students.

Further details on Saturday's event can be found here - https://www.facebook.com/events/647476285322619/

Ashir
04-23-2014, 09:15 AM
Thanks JulianH!
This year we are able to get quite a few sponsors! The "persistence" does pay :) We still have to focus on our publicity in local area, to be particular, the mass media.

Soumya
05-05-2014, 11:04 AM
We have 51 registered teams for 'Formula Student India 2015'. Official entry list will be published tomorrow on www.formulastudent.in

Teams still have 9 days to register themselves and take part in the Rules Quiz on 25th May,2014. 32 teams to be selected via 'Rules Quiz'.

5 'seeded entry' spots are still available.