information about engines

[alessio1990]

Hi,
I'm an Italian Student of unipg racing team and I have to choose the engine of our new car: I think that the Honda CBR600 F is the best, but the question I have is about the oil pan and the pump: the lateral acceleration that occours during the dynamic test allows the oil to go inside the pump? Is there anyone who had problems with these engines?
Tank you

[Jan_Dressler]

Hi,
the lateral acceleration that occours during the dynamic test allows the oil to go inside the pump?
Yes. If you drive slow enough.

Joking aside, it would be nice to hear why you think that the CBR600 F engine (by the way, which one? F4i?) is "the best". Or if you you want to use a completely stock lubrication system. Or something like a shortened oil pan. With baffles, or without, trap doors, rotating pickup, or dry sump...
I can tell you that our first car back in 2007 used a stock R6 engine. It worked. But the CoG was just a little bit below the moon.

[alessio1990]

-first of all, sorry for my English, but it's the first time I Post here!
We think the CBR 600 F4 is the best for the shape of its oil pan and its oil suction pipe...we think that it could "catch" oil also during cornering. But the main reason is the cost: one CBRengine of 2003 costs about 600-700$, and we dont' have much money to invest!! University of Rome "la Sapienza" used it since 2002 without particular problems.
Another engine we think is suitabile it's the Fazer 600, because it has the intake ducts (is "duct" the correct word??) vertical, and it is more compact, so it has a low CoG: the problem we have in this case is that we don't have the solidworks models of the engine (is there anybody who had that?). In both cases the question is: does the wet sump allow the pump to work correctly? If we want to design a dry sump, is there anybody who had arleady done?

[Jay Lawrence]

Duct is correct, runner is also correct.

There are plenty of teams who have built dry sumps for the CBR600F4 engine (us included). These are a lot more complicated than a wet sump, and are (in my opinion) unnecessary. All you need to do is find a way to minimise the chances of there being no oil at the pickup point (see Jan's post for clues). However you do it, you should probably build a new sump (the standard bike one is very tall, meaning that you have to mount your engine too high).

If you have the model for the CBR and you can get an engine cheap, then it sounds like it may be the best one for you. Have a read of the "Is there any way to objectively choose an engine?" thread, there's lots of info on various engines and the management choices that may point to a particular one. Also read Bigbird's "Reasoning your way through the FSAE design process."

[Jan_Dressler]

-first of all, sorry for my English, but it's the first time I Post here!
Don't worry, I think we understand what you want to say :)

We think the CBR 600 F4 is the best for the shape of its oil pan and its oil suction pipe...we think that it could "catch" oil also during cornering.
Well... I don't really think that the shape of the oil pan is a perfect criteria for choosing an engine O_O What about the big picture? 4 cylinders vs. 1, or 2 or whatever... Potential power vs. fuel consumption, weight of the engine-/drivetrain-package and so on...

But the main reason is the cost: one CBRengine of 2003 costs about 600-700$, and we dont' have much money to invest!! University of Rome "la Sapienza" used it since 2002 without particular problems.
Another engine we think is suitabile it's the Fazer 600, because it has the intake ducts (is "duct" the correct word??) vertical, and it is more compact, so it has a low CoG:
I do understand the cost argument. It is one of the many reasons why former team still uses the CBR600 RR PC37 engine. Still quite cheap, and we have at least 8 or 9 or so of that engines (in parts) here, because we used it for the past 6 years. But still: There are many engines you can get quite cheap. Intake ducts "more vertically"? Hm... Why do you need that?

the problem we have in this case is that we don't have the solidworks models of the engine (is there anybody who had that?).
Search the world wide web, or get someone to scan it for you :)

In both cases the question is: does the wet sump allow the pump to work correctly? If we want to design a dry sump, is there anybody who had arleady done?
Wet sump vs. dry sump is an age old debate... Both can work, both have its advantages and disadvantages. Do a forum search here, and you will have A LOT of material to read. I am, of course, a dry sump guy (since I designed our dry sump system in 2007/2008), and an evolutionary version still works perfectly in our car. So yes, there is somebody who has done it. Quite many, actually. It is really not rocket science. Just do your research properly, know what you do, and why you do it the way you do it.