kinematics

[Ax]

hey guys
i have a problem goin on with the kinematic packaging of the car in particular my camber gains. for the geometry to be such that i get 0 outside wheel camber while cornering should it mean my steer camber and roll camber should work together to achieve it? would there be other factors to consider too? and how much consideration should be given to the inside wheel camber?

[Ax]

hey guys
i have a problem goin on with the kinematic packaging of the car in particular my camber gains. for the geometry to be such that i get 0 outside wheel camber while cornering should it mean my steer camber and roll camber should work together to achieve it? would there be other factors to consider too? and how much consideration should be given to the inside wheel camber?

[Thomas MuWe]

I do not understand exactly your problem concerning packaging. Everybody has package problems....
They are 4 major factors to change your camber.

1. Roll
2. Steer (at the front)
3. Compliance (which can make a huge impact)
4. Wheel travel

If your instant center stays where it is:
Good camber recovery in roll leads to bad camber gain in heave. And vice versa.

IMO the inside wheel is important as long as it stays on the ground. (that is a different story) But look mainly for the outside one and how the camber should be there.

[Ax]

i apologise for my choice of words. i was actually referring to my suspension geometry not kinematic 'packaging'.
will be glad to have more inputs now that im clear.

[MalcolmG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thomas Müller-Werth:
...Everybody has package problems....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Speak for yourself buddy http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Thomas MuWe]

@malcomG:

What do you mean?
Do you know our 08 car?!

There you can see (http://joanneum-racing.at/de/fotos.php?sepa=QmVzdGUgQmlsZGVyIGpyMDg=&pic=1391&nr=MjM=&anzahl=NTA=) how close everything is or there how tight we built the car. (http://joanneum-racing.at/de/fotos.php?sepa=Rm90b3MganIwOCBEZXIgTW90b3I=&pic=1133&nr=NA==&anzahl=Ng==)
And the ARB is not in at the last picture.... :-)
So to package everything correctly is a huge task.

Back to topic:

You always have to make compromises. That what suspension design is all about. :-) You could build the "best" suspension without having that "torque box" in the chassis! (sorry for that) :-)
Your camber is important but it is not the holy thing which make a car go fast. IMO to get good camber during roll/ cornering is much better than getting good camber during heave.
More input I cannot give you because I have no idea what you are looking for! :-)

[Thomas MuWe]

@malcomG:

I am sorry, but my post has to be approved by the admin.... :-) Will come next week or so...

[The_Man]

While you are cornering you wheel camber will change because of roll as well as because of steering about the steer axis, and it will be very difficult (if not impossible) and not necessary for camber gain to be exactly zero. What you are looking for is that the camber should be within an acceptable range at all times so tyres do what they are supposed to do and last long enough.

Coming to the inside verses outside tyre. You would be ideally better off with your outside having a camber corresponding to better grip compared to the inside because there is more load on the outside but this is not always necessarily the case. It might not be a bad idea to improve its camber in the inside tyre to trade for more grip here at the expense of grip on the outside wheel, specially in the rear. In the end you want the best total grip to accelerate out or brake into corners.