How to be a rookie judge?

[Cardriverx]

To the judges on here,

I graduated last year and want to start the process to become a rookie judge at Michigan this year and give back to FSAE. It seems kinda hard to find out who to contact about this... Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

[Jay Lawrence]

From my experience, it seems that judges are chosen by the competition via their sponsorship (and often have no clue), or are long standing members of the FSAE community (Claude, Pat, etc.). Having spoken to some volunteers, the impression is that you have to volunteer for a while (flag marshalling, practice track controller, etc.), thus qualifying as being a 'long standing member' before getting near the judging tent.

[mdavis]

I just had this discussion with Kaley Zundel about volunteering earlier today. I'd start with an email to her, and tell her what you're interested in. Here's her email address: kzundel@sae.org

[Big Bird]

Just a polite clarification if I may

We have a number of long standing judges here in Australia, but we also are continuously on the lookout for new judging talent. Many of the long-standing judges and officials are looking towards the new generation to step in and to start taking command of the FSAE-A ship. So there are judging positions available here, allocated on a merit basis.

If you are interested in a judging role here by all means send us your resume / details and you will be considered. Over the past few years a number of FSAE alumni have been Design judges, and have completed the task very successfully. For those who may only be a year or two past graduation, if selected we would probably put you in a supervised position simply because of possible perception of bias towards (or against!) the team you came from. Otherwise the positions are open to the best candidates we can find.

All enquiries can be sent to: formulasae@sae-a.com.au

Kind regards,

Geoff

[Edward M. Kasprzak]

I have sent you a PM.

[jlangholzj]

Glad I'm not the only one thinking about this. After getting a job locked in for this December this was priority number 2 for me. Although I'll be content with scrutineering instead of design judging.....still not convinced i know all that much! :)

[Claude Rouelle]

The following is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect FSAE and / or Formula student organizers opinion.

Design judging is not a closed circle. At the contrary, we need fresh minds and new perspectives so I personally would welcome new design judges and ideally former FS / FSAE participants. Older judges do have experience, maybe "wisdom" but after a while they are less aware of new technologies. And one of these days the oldest judges won't be there... So we do need new, younger judges

The only reserve I have is that I wish any new design judges would have a minimum of 2 or 3 years of professional experience. In FSAE / Formula Student you do not really have a boss, or have customers. The new 2013 rear suspension, diff, wing is not ready.. ok let's fit the 2012 one. Once you are in a real world, if you do not not deliver on-target and on-time there will most probably be consequences. In FSAE / FS there aren't. Reaching on time and on target delivery is rarely part of the students self imposed discipline.

As FSAE / Formula Student main objective is to prepare engineers for their tomorrow work, I wish new design judges would have the same innovation spirit and enthusiasm they had as students but with also a bit more experience and sense of reality of the industry time, budget, organization, large scale industrialization, market, competition, customer demand and.... yeah as much as I hate this... also big company inertia and politics constraints.

In other words I believe each former student need 24 to 36 months to cut his FSAE / FS umbilical cord :)

*****

Just one more comment about design judge independently of the topic of new judge recruitment. Students and organizers will recognize that the commitment and the time spent before, during and after the events (I personally answer a minimum 2 or 3 emails about FSAE cars design and testing engineering advice every week + time of the FSAE forum) come most of the times from people who are retired (Pat Clarke, Bill Cobb, Geoff Pearson - Goeff I hope you are not offended if I put you in this category hopefully only for a while) or self employed or owner of their own relatively small company (Steve Fox for example). Besides guys like Michael Tobias, most of people who have a "real job " in bigger companies do not find the time to help students on a consistent basis. We need judges from big companies, for their experience and the indispensable budget that they could bring but we also need real racing nuts and motorsport enthusiasts with available time.

*****
Kaley Zundel is probably the best person to contact; she probably will redirect your demand to one of the chief design judges

[mdavis]

Glad I'm not the only one thinking about this. After getting a job locked in for this December this was priority number 2 for me. Although I'll be content with scrutineering instead of design judging.....still not convinced i know all that much! :)

This is probably what I'm going to do as well, at least for a couple of years. Hopefully I'll have learned a little more by then, and will be more able to help as a design judge.

[SAE_intl_girl]

Just wanted to throw out my contact information and the invitation for anyone interested in volunteering for the Formula SAE Michigan and Lincoln/Electric competitions to please feel free and contact me. As previously mentioned by others (Geoff and Claude), we are always looking for new talent to return to Formula SAE with their fresh minds and perspectives to volunteer.
I would be happy to talk with you about your interest...we have many opportunities and needs.

Email: kzundel@sae.org
Office: 724-772-8533

[Cardriverx]

All, thanks for the replies. Sorry for the lead time, work has been busy.

Ed, thanks for the PM, it was very helpful.

Claude, I defiantly see your point. I am working at Toyota which I suppose is almost as large a company you can get in the automotive industry and all the things you said about the "real world" are true and I am learning about now. I just want to try to get involved in FSAE now (maybe shadow a judge this year) so that I can transition into a more important role easily later.

Kaley, I'll send out an email today.

Thanks!

[Claude Rouelle]

You may want consider helping at the track or at tech inspection for 1 or 2 years before applying for design judging. During that time you acquired professional experience. Just a thought. And that chronological suggestion does not take anything away for the consideration I have for track helpers and tech inspection.

Chris Patton from Oregon State was one of the students who understood the best vehicle dynamics and race car engineering in both theoretical and on-track testing approaches. He is now in F1. This year he helped with logistic of design judging but he wasn't a design judge, although he had all the skills to do so. Although I never was included in any discussion about Chris possibly working as a design judge I guess he and the chief design judges must have concluded that for still active students it must be strange to be judged by a recently graduated engineer who was is either one of their team member or your competitor just 1 or 2 years ago.

You need to give time ...to time.

[Cardriverx]

I'll do whatever is needed - I plan on being at Michigan regardless if I have a job to do or not. I guess I'll wait to hear back from Kaley.



You may want consider helping at the track or at tech inspection for 1 or 2 years before applying for design judging. During that time you acquired professional experience. Just a thought. And that chronological suggestion does not take anything away for the consideration I have for track helpers and tech inspection.

Chris Patton from Oregon State was one of the students who understood the best vehicle dynamics and race car engineering in both theoretical and on-track testing approaches. He is now in F1. This year he helped with logistic of design judging but he wasn't a design judge, although he had all the skills to do so. Although I never was included in any discussion about Chris possibly working as a design judge I guess he and the chief design judges must have concluded that for still active students it must be strange to be judged by a recently graduated engineer who was is either one of their team member or your competitor just 1 or 2 years ago.

You need to give time ...to time.

[Michael Royce]

I will second Claude's suggestion that helping out at tech inspection/scrutineering is an excellent place to start. You get to see a lot of cars and interact direct with the students. I cannot speak for the Michigan and Lincoln events, as I have not been involved in them since 2009, but I know that at Formula Student UK, most of the scrutineers are FSAE/FS alumni, are a very knowledgeable and experienced crew, and a pleasure to work with.

From comments he has made in the past, Tony Lyscio, the Chief Design Judge at the Michigan event, has more people wanting to be Design Judges than he can accommodate. So if that is your objective, you will need to work on your CV!!

[Claude Rouelle]

Recruiting design judges is not a different task than finding good interns or good employees. The email and mail boxes are full of decent applications but only a few of them will meet the expectations.

[Steve Fox]

I will echo what Claude, Geoff, Kaley and Michael have already stated. I tried to publish the DJ recruiting guidelines we use, but FSAE.com told me the document had too many characters to be cut and pasted… I will also state that there is no Design Judge ‘Secret Society’. We are always on the lookout for qualified engineers looking to make a meaningful contribution to a student engineer’s education!

In a nut-shell… We look for engineers from the automotive, aerospace, and motorsports industries. We give preferential consideration to ALL past FSAE/FS competitors. We also give preferential consideration to any engineers actively involved in motorsports. We would like to see a minimum of 3-5 years of real world work experience. 5-10 years is preferred. There are exceptions to every rule, and we have taken on recent graduates to help us in Design Judging logistics. Chris Patton is one such example.

I feel that most students have more respect for a DJ who is a little more senior to them, which is a small part of the consideration in not accepting recently graduated students.

We are always looking for really good DJ talent. We need 80-100 DJs at Michigan, and 60-80 good DJs at Lincoln… every year. Probably the hardest DJs to recruit are engineers with expertise in Aerodynamics, Electronics Integration, and Carbon Structures. Another area we need help in is electric powertrain judges.

When it comes to design judging, it is not enough to simply be a skilled engineer. You must also possess above average communication skills, and be a great teacher / mentor, as well as demonstrate impeccable moral standards. After all, you are dealing with the sharpest engineering students in the world, and they look up to you, and aspire to be a DJ some day. You must set the proper example.

Kaley passes all potential DJ candidates on to the Design Captains / Chief Design Judges. We then send you a copy of the DJ requirements, and we schedule a telephone interview with you. If you meet our minimum acceptance standards, we take you on as a probationary (rookie) DJ.

I would urge any and all persons to volunteer to Kaley, if you are interested in becoming a DJ. I look forward to hearing from you. I can guarantee you an intense amount of work for a weekend, no pay, and a richly rewarding experience you cannot get anywhere else.