First Successful AWD Car

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Hats off to University of Guelph for there successful car. LeHighs car was impressive as well, but these guys were able to finish Endurance with all wheels driving. I was curious to see if they would actually show up with what they were showing in design picts on there site before comp. There system was very well packaged and i was impressed by there electronic center diff. It seemed to be quite successful in Endurance since they said they ran a 62 second lap. Bein the drivetrain leader for UW-P I was really impressed, curious to see what others have to say.
Unfortunatly we did not have the correct displacement master cylinders for our Wilwood cart brakes and were not able to pass braking and couldnt do any dynamic events. Didnt get to test out the new all aluminum housing i designed for the Torsen. Hopefully SCCA events this summer will break it in.

Mike Duwe
UW-Platteville Drivetrain Leader

[Ben Beacock]

Thanks for the support. Its hard to get it when we're so far off the beaten path, but I still beleive we can win with this package. For the number crunchers-- the car came in at 588lbs, 65lbs due to the AWD system. Someone told a design judge on wed that the AWD system added 100lbs. He never beleived the 65lbs after that(especially since we had 55lbs on our design report). 48F:52R weight dist with
driver.
I have never been as happy as I was when the car came across the finish line. When I got out, it was stuck in 2nd gear and made a nasty clunking noise on a few of the heavy bumps. I told Jason to baby the car and he certainly did. By the end of his run, the front brakes were covered in CV grease, and one of the rear rotors was machining the caliper. One of the rotor hat bolts was machining the rf upright as well. I count ourselves as one of the luckiest teams there. The rf wheel eventually locked up as we were pushing it to the panoramic photo.
I have loads more stories, and I think we'll have a recap up on our website soon. Some of these include getting a front shaft back from heat treating saturday, driving AWD for the first time sunday night, breaking an upright monday, shearing out a section of frame tuesday at 9pm, hesitantly letting our accel and skidpad drivers try AWD for the first time wed morning.

Anyways, thanks again for the support. I had fun chatting with all the people that came by (there were quite a few)

[IsheeM]

Congrats Geulph. Inivation such as this is what keeps the comp such a great experience.

[Dr Claw]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I had fun chatting with all the people that came by (there were quite a few) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I either talked to you, or one of your teamates, but i stoped by your car for a while. (provided i talked to you...) Did you get a chance to check out the Lawrence Tech car? if you did, sorry i missed you.

cant wait to see the second variation of 4WD, next year though. good luck

-Ken

[UTA racer rikki]

Just curious what tech inspector missed that at the driver change. Some evidence of that had to be happening, i.e. the clunking noise in the first half of the enduro.

Hmmmm, diff leak.

Glad you guys were able to finish though. I wish I could have found your car in the paddock area. I would have liked to see how your package was all layed out.

[Ben Beacock]

I do beleive we have a small diff leak, but it would have been caught in the pan at the rear. The rules only say that the engine pan has to be vented to avoid pooling of gas, but nothing about pooling of diff fluid http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ben

[UTA racer rikki]

Ben,

We've definitely developed a plan for "concealing" any diff leak in the future. Keeping it on the hush hush though. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Denny Trimble]

That's what an undertray is for, right? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Sam Zimmerman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>We've definitely developed a plan for "concealing" any diff leak in the future. Keeping it on the hush hush though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Say it ain't so, I can't imagine UTA keeping somethin on the "hush hush."

Our cure is to just vent the diff. I was quite suprised to hear that you guys didn't do this. As it heats up, the vapors can escape as the fluid heats up and it does not leak, except for a drop or two if it is parked with the vent pointed down. An undertray would catch this.

[UTA racer rikki]

Sam,

We're kinda bummed that we didn't think to cover our carbon rims... It would have been nice to keep those on the hush hush. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many teams are thinking about those for next year now???

As far as the diff goes, we are thinking of draining it completely. No oil, no leak. No leak, finish endurance.... maybe. I think an undertray or pan would catch the oil, but if they see a puddle on the undertray, and it runs off onto the track, you're still going to be pulled.

Hey Sam, we answer all the questions people ask. Sometimes the answers are just more vague than others. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[jack]

i designed wwu's diff to leak in cetain spots to vent the diff, unfortunatley it leaks every where else too...no oil sounds like a good idea to me...so does a spool...

[Charlie]

I definitely know that there have been teams running thier torsens 'slightly damp' in the past. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I guess our torsen does OK. Its not vented-except for through the axle seals I suppose. No leakage problems, and we run a lighter fluid than most.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

must be nice to even be able to consider runnin ur diff dry, unfortunatly down here in farm country P-Ville Wisconsin, we cannot afford a new torsen every year, or a new $2000 custom billet housing (sure hope i designed it so it will stick around a few years!!). i have lots of new ideas for next years drivetrain, many from this site, everyone is such a help. since these forums jump all over the place and this is a powertrain thread i thought i would throw out a new can of worms, what other engines have teams considered, besides the typical 6 speed 4 banger crotch rocket engine. i mean i see a few polaris' out there and that mehel or whatever it was. i have one idea that i believe is 500 sumptin cc's and is making over 200 hp.
later
Mike Duwe
UW-P Drivetrain Leader 2004-05

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

scratch my previous statement about the 200 hp, i was short a cylinder when i estimated displacement, what i was lookin at was the new Sea Doo 4-Tech supercharged jetski engine, dont know much about jet skis i guess. on other thing i was wondering was what advantages teams give for longitudionally mounting engines? i see the lack of chains with lubrication and tensioning probems, and also being able to use a front atv diff and leave it relativley stock, meanin less chance of failure and leaks
Mike Duwe
UW-P Drivetrain Leader 2004-05

[Ashley Denmead]

in my opinion a chain drive is the best as it has the least amount of parasidic losses....(less rotational inertia than a shaft)....could be wrong tho...and its easy to vary ratios...

[B Hise]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UTA racer rikki:
Sam,

We're kinda bummed that we didn't think to cover our carbon rims... It would have been nice to keep those on the hush hush. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many teams are thinking about those for next year now???

As far as the diff goes, we are thinking of draining it completely. No oil, no leak. No leak, finish endurance.... maybe. I think an undertray or pan would catch the oil, but if they see a puddle on the undertray, and it runs off onto the track, you're still going to be pulled.

Hey Sam, we answer all the questions people ask. Sometimes the answers are just more vague than others. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Im at UMD and I am thinking about designing a carbon wheel. What problems did your team run into with that whole process?

[UTA racer rikki]

B Hise,

The biggest problem we had was in the manufacturing. It took us almost a year to get the first set finished. Inner and outer molds were necessary (for us) to get the finished part that we desired. Designing the wheel was cake in comparison to seeing the first wheel come out of the mold.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

as i was lookin thru picts i took at comp, i remembered that i was gona ask about the driveshafts on the front of ur awd car. with you diff being ofset so far to one side, didnt that cause some problems on the long side with suspension travel? also, what was your weight distribution from side to side, all your drivetrain components were on the right side, but i know your engine was shifed to the left, did things ballance out good? i came across an older post about awd cars, talkin about electric cars and hydraulic driven cars. basically racing is fuel consumption for fun, so a hybrid electric car would be far from anything we see in automotive racing today. plus theres the whole weight issue, if it can be done with some atv parts, an electronic diff and an aluminum driveshaft for under 70lbs, i doubt those would work out better!

[mike240z]

We considered making carbon rims. However, due to time and money we won't be making them this year http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif It would be great to see some pics of yours...

[Ben Beacock]

The front left halfshaft is actually 2 pieces. The inner shaft is an extension and is supported by a bearing on the outer end. This eliminates the problem with shaft movement and means the legs can sit lower and closer to the shaft. I believe it is also safer because it is supported by a bearing.

The weight balance worked out well. We calculated it in the 3D model before we started and it ended up pretty much where we expected it.

[Cement Legs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by UTA racer rikki:
We're kinda bummed that we didn't think to cover our carbon rims... It would have been nice to keep those on the hush hush. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did you guys balance your rims? Did you add a piece of aluminum somewhere to machine balance that and leave the CF as it was/ Did you just balance the wheels and hubs as a unit?

hmmmmmmmm

Cheers

[Denny Trimble]

Balance? Extra weight...

[Jon Huddleston]

I think '04 has only spent 2-3 min. of its life at "tire balance" speeds. I have been driving on the carbon wheels since March with a couple high speed Auto-X at Texas Motor Speedway road course with speeds at 90-100 mph with no vibrations. There's not much weight in the outer part of the wheel and we offset the seam of the tire from the valve.

*Pics posted under new topic, UTA Carbon Wheel.*

[Daves]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Say it ain't so, I can't imagine UTA keeping somethin on the "hush hush."

Our cure is to just vent the diff. I was quite suprised to hear that you guys didn't do this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am confused as to whether the Taylor-Race Engineering/Quaife differential is vented and sealed, not vented and sealed, vented and not sealed, or not vented and not sealed.