Going Duel Outboard Brakes, Mounting disks to CV joints

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

a few referances of what I mean : see Ben's 2 pictures he posted up in http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/8666...136080615#4136080615 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/8666044415/r/4136080615#4136080615)

also here is the cv we are using (Honda trx-350) http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/duwem/trx35ooutercv.jpg

I was thinking of welding a ring on to the green part of the cv housing and bolting the disk to it...any more pictures of how you have done this or imputs/information would be appreciated before we ruin a set of expensive cv joints
Thanks

[J. Schmidt]

How 'bout atatching the disc via a hat bolted to the existing differential bolt holes? But you know me, just causing trouble http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

don't be counter productive Joel, hats are for people not differentials.

[Marshall Grice]

I don't know about how to attach them. We aren't doing outboard/inboard rear brakes. Although i'm curious if you're worried about the heat input to the cv joint.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

the brakes wont be used very heavily being duel rear, and with some high temp grease and the minmal angluar deflection from suspension travel, I do not forsee it as being a big problem.

[jsmooz]

I'd be iffy on outboard welding. The heat you'd put into it might warp the raceways for the balls or weaken them (since they are hardened). But then again, we welded our disk mounts to the inboard cups last year with out any problems. I'd be careful on the amount of heat put into the cup. Make sure to do small sections allowing plenty of time to cool.

[Ben Beacock]

I certainly wouldn't use that mounting method again. The cv joints were hardened, so drilling was difficult. The mounting rings were a pain to make and the bolt/pins were as well. The whole setup also had terrible runout. For 05, the front rotor hats were mounted outboard to the hubs and the rear rotor hats were carefully welded to the inner tripods. Much simpler, lighter and easier at the expense of reduced tripod reliability.(although we haven't had a failure)

[Buckingham]

the brakes wont be used very heavily being duel rear, and with some high temp grease and the minmal angluar deflection from suspension travel, I do not forsee it as being a big problem.

Don't be fooled into thinking that because there is less energy input into the rear rotors, that they will operate cooler than the fronts. If for some reason your rear rotors dissipate heat at a slower rate, it is very possible to have rear rotors that run hotter.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I figured they would be heat treated, would it even be feasable to weld then heat treat the housing again? I would pull them all apart ahead of time to remove the balls. The rings that would mount up would probably be lazer cut with holes to bolt up the brake disks, also lazered out.

[dave_ex_monash]

Mike,
The monash team have run inboard brakes mounted to the honda CV joints. However they are plunging CV not the green non-plunging ones you are talking about. I am sure there will be some pictures either on forum or at the monash website of the 2004/2005 driveline.
Due to very tight packaging space the rotors were not floated on the rear and were fasetened to the CV joint using 6 M4 or M5 bolts. The CV was modified to use a different bearing surface and also the mounting surface of the rotor. We originally planned on attaching the rotors to the non plunging CV but we did not believe there was enough material to mount to and did not want to weld/heat treat. We were concerned with rotor temps affecting the CV/Diff and we did use some temperature dependent colour changing markers to determine the temperature different components reached but i do not have the data.
I hope this helps

[KU_Racing]

I would be concerned about losing the heat treat on the cv joint. The bearing races on the inside would not be my big concern, since we arent talking about putting 50,000 miles of wear on the races. I would be concerned about the splines on the output side- it would seem like the splines are far enough away that you could keep them cool, but i think the CV is such a small part that to get enough penetration on the brake rotor (remember how much force is going into that weld- its gonna have to be a very thick bead, especially if it is not starred or profiled) you would pull the case hardening out of the splines. If you do that, you are guaranteed to shear the splines off at some point.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I assume this is what you are talking about Dave.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/duwem/build2018.jpg


Could you tell me who I could contact from the drivetrain team to further discuss this mounting, looks like what I want to do.

[Wright D]

Why not just machine drive dogs on the outside of the cv housing, and the reverse on the brake disk. This would also allow the disc to float on the housing, meaning you could fix the rotors. It might also mean disassembly/reassembly might be easier.

Two pictures of my idea:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/WrightD/example.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/WrightD/example2.jpg

You could have the disc laser cut, so that would make it easy to make the female dogs. The male dogs (the ones on the cv housing) could be made with a ¼ ball end mill and a rotary table on a conventional mill. Of course a CNC would be able to do it too.
Pros:
No welding, no loss of heat treatment, and the ability to quickly change brake discs.

Cons:
Stress concentrations in the CV housing
Having to machine the Hard CV housing

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

not a bad idea, but with the heat treatment, machining maybe be difficult. I would see some problems with fitment and things wearing fast with that setup as well. Also, there isn't an excessive amount of material in those housings to machine out notches.