Engine selection & Tuning [Archive]

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Nima

02-07-2006, 04:19 AM

I want to know more about these bellows:

1. which reasons could be couse to select an special engine? I can use honda or suzuki or ...
So in which standards I must select my engine?

2. Now which standards must I suppose to engine to design the formula car in class 3 formula student?
Is it necessary to have an engine to complete my formula student class 3 designings?

3. Is it necessary to import tuning options in designing, to go to the class 3 competitins?

4. what is the engine-tuning for?
What does the MoTec do for tuning? (See below)
I have seen it in almost fsae cars...
http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/ME102/proj_archive/F03/Proj11/Dscn0011.jpg

If anyone be able to answer these problems, please!

you can email me: nima_r@me.iut.ac.ir

Nima

02-07-2006, 04:19 AM

SpdRcr

02-07-2006, 09:06 AM

lower your gas prices and maybe we'll talk. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dave M

02-07-2006, 09:23 AM

try searching the forum using the find tool. All of this stuff has been discussed in great detail before.

pengulns2001

02-07-2006, 09:48 AM

1: becuase it has the easiest mounting points, comes in under 610cc's makes good power, is very reliable, and more teams use it than any other (so when you blow yours up at comp you can buy someones backup)

2: what???

3: import tuning options? you mean like import an ecu or ecm (whatever you want to call it)... if you cant buy them in your country then yes you have too

4: are you asking why you tune the engine?... im assuming not but not sure what you mean

Nima

02-07-2006, 10:59 AM

Thanks everyone
thanks SpdRcr

pengulns2001

02-07-2006, 11:51 AM

did anyone even answer your question?

Nima

02-09-2006, 10:04 AM

I have read the other discussions and have found some answers...

But I coudn't underestand engine tuning, without having engine & the tuning accessories...!
the engine tuning is a experimental work and couldn't do it on the paper!

pengulns2001

02-09-2006, 10:26 AM

nope you definatly cannot tune an engine on paper http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif... you might want to find someone local who has done it before and learn from them... other wise your in a world of hurt

Nima

02-09-2006, 10:44 AM

Thanks penguln2001.
So I will do it... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

pengulns2001

02-09-2006, 05:31 PM

i just noticed the motec in the first picture... when you wire it wire a twisted shielded pair for your ref and sync sensors... and make them FAR away from all other wiring... it sounds stupid or simple but it will save you a ton of headaches

Nima

02-11-2006, 08:48 AM

So in according to your says and the other engine discussions in this forum, I prefer to dispense with the turbocharger and the engine tuning...

I think this is the best I can ever do to my designings, because we'll sit for the class 3 formula student without buying any engine!

Jersey Tom

02-11-2006, 08:52 AM

If you have a driving car, your engine HAS to be tuned, one way or another. The easiest way is to just run a stock OEM ECU on whatever engine you got.

Garlic

02-11-2006, 10:41 AM

If I am not mistaken class 3 Formula Student is just design, with no actual car built.

If this is the case you might want to understand how engine tuning is performed, but no, you won't have to do it on paper, because you need feedback for the process.

pengulns2001

02-12-2006, 09:24 AM

man that competition must be horrible, no offense of course but thats pretty boring

Garlic

02-12-2006, 10:32 AM

The idea is you build the car the next year (or at some point), it's not like they will be designing something that has no intention of being built.

Nima

02-15-2006, 12:43 AM

So I will <span class="ev_code_RED">make a solid model of engine with perfect measures and get the technical informations which I will need </span>from the other teams and I think this is sufficiant for the class 3.

If the judges ask about the engine details, I will say them I don't know beacuse I haven't had any engines!

murpia

02-15-2006, 06:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nima:
So I will <span class="ev_code_RED">make a solid model of engine with perfect measures and get the technical informations which I will need </span>from the other teams and I think this is sufficiant for the class 3.

If the judges ask about the engine details, I will say them I don't know beacuse I haven't had any engines! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The FStudent Class 3 judges will be most interested in a sound engineering analysis of which engine you will use and why you decided to use it. Useful technical info you will need to complete this analysis are weight, power / torque curves with a 20mm restrictor, cooling requirements, fuel consumption, chassis packaging requirements, transmission / final drive options, etc. You won't need a pretty picture of a perfect solid CAD model...
Regards, Ian

El Joe

02-15-2006, 08:31 AM

No offense Nima but come on!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> which reasons could be couse to select an special engine? I can use honda or suzuki or ...
So in which standards I must select my engine?

what is the engine-tuning for?
What does the MoTec do for tuning? I have seen it in almost fsae cars...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is why people are beginning to question FSAE, people doesn't want to think for themselves anymore.

Nima

02-15-2006, 10:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El Joe:
No offense Nima but come on!!!

This is why people are beginning to question FSAE, people doesn't want to think for themselves anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are right Joe...
But everyone must start from somewhere at first to underestand somethings that want to know.
I'll be happy to notice me my mistakes...

Nima

02-15-2006, 11:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by murpia:
The FStudent Class 3 judges will be most interested in a sound engineering analysis of which engine you will use and why you decided to use it. Useful technical info you will need to complete this analysis are weight, power / torque curves with a 20mm restrictor, cooling requirements, fuel consumption, chassis packaging requirements, transmission / final drive options, etc. You won't need a pretty picture of a perfect solid CAD model...
Regards, Ian </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Marpia
Now I found that how to select engine and what is the parameters to design engine and powertrain with the guys' guidances.
You point some technical info But I still don't know how to find this informations, beacuse I couldn't buy an engine. However if I could buy, I couldn't find the engine upper 250cc in my country, beacuse it is forbidden to have a motorcycle with 300cc and upper volume in IRAN.

I can just see the other fsae teams' powertrain info and compare them...

Nima

02-16-2006, 06:41 AM

I've found a solid model in tow formats from the tigerracing website:

http://tigerracing.lsu.edu/public/cbr600f4i.SLDPRT
http://tigerracing.lsu.edu/public/cbr600f4i.IGS
http://tigerracing.lsu.edu/public/cbr600f4i.jpg

Chris Davin

02-16-2006, 01:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nima:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El Joe:
No offense Nima but come on!!!

This is why people are beginning to question FSAE, people doesn't want to think for themselves anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are right Joe...
But everyone must start from somewhere at first to underestand somethings that want to know.
I'll be happy to notice me my mistakes... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nima,

You are correct that everyone must start somewhere. FSAE.com is a good resource for figuring out what other teams are doing, thinking, considering, etc. But, the questions you asked (What criteria should I use to select an engine? What is engine tuning for? What is a MOTEC?) are pretty basic, and you can't expect someone on FSAE.com to give you a lecture on this material. My recommendation is to start building a library of engine information, including books, technical publications, websites, articles, etc.

It may sound silly, but I would suggest you first visit www.howstuffworks.com (http://www.howstuffworks.com). They have a great collection of articles on automotive/engine technology that include pictures and animations. Read them all. After that, I would recommend the following engine books to get you started:

Heywood, John B. Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals 007028637X

Mattingly, Jack Elements of Gas Turbine Propulsion 0079121969

Ferguson, Colin, and Allan Kirkpatrick Internal Combustion Engines: Applied Thermosciences 0471356174

Stone, Richard Introduction to Internal Combustion Engines 0768004950

Taylor, Charles The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice, Vol 1 0262700263

Taylor, Charles The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice, Vol 2 0262700271

Bell, Corky Maximum Boost 0837601606

Wade, Adam Motorcycle Fuel Injection Handbook 076031635X

Good luck.

Nima

02-20-2006, 09:02 AM

thanks chris

you have guided me in the correct way that I didn't know...
yes you'r right
I'll refer to the sources you had offered me.