Megasquirt and Ignition???

[Tiredmind]

Hi!,

I am currently working on getting a Megasquirt up and running for this year's car.... but i am a bit stuck. I was thinking about using a Ford EDIS4 module nad using a VR sensor in the stock rotor location, but i have a few concerns..
will the EDIS module be alright past 9k rpms?
and if not might someone be willing to point me in the right direction?

also the crankshaft is lefthand threaded where it meets the ignition trigger?

[Tiredmind]

Hi!,

I am currently working on getting a Megasquirt up and running for this year's car.... but i am a bit stuck. I was thinking about using a Ford EDIS4 module nad using a VR sensor in the stock rotor location, but i have a few concerns..
will the EDIS module be alright past 9k rpms?
and if not might someone be willing to point me in the right direction?

also the crankshaft is lefthand threaded where it meets the ignition trigger?

[Brian Perry]

We also use Megasquirt. I'm not the engine guy, so I wouldn't be of much help to you. But, have you checked out the Megasquirt Support Forum (http://www.msefi.com/)?

[Mike Flitcraft]

Which version of the MS are you using? MS 1, MS 2, or MS 3?

Any modifications to the board? Firmware? Megasquirt 'n Spark?

Need a bit more info to help ya out.

[Tiredmind]

We have the megasquirt 2 with the v3.0 board. I wouldnt be opposed to modifying the board but right now its in its stock form

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Try the search option on here, I know MS has been discussed here. We use the "spark extra" option to run ours....drives 2 coils so wasted spark.

[markocosic]

As far as we've been advised, EDIS isn't going to appreciate turning 9 or 10k rpm. (8 is 'ok')

MS 'n' Spark in use here, IIRC using a '4-1' wheel and two (non-CDI) wasted-spark coils and a few 'bodges' (modifications? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) to a standard MS board but all well-documented modification. I'm not the EMS bod, but if you drop a line to dykm2 <at> cam.ac.uk I'm sure he'll be happy to explain all!

[VimxTech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tiredmind:

will the EDIS module be alright past 9k rpms?
and if not might someone be willing to point me in the right direction? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm for a complete discussion on how to integrate EDIS with megasquirt.

EDIS4 is a two-channel wasted spark ignition system, essentially an inductive discharge (ID) system. Max RPM will be proportional to sum of dwell time and coil discharge time. Specifically, Max_RPM = 60/(dwell_time + discharge_time)*num_channels). From what I saw on the megasquirt web site, suggested dwell_time = 3 ms (typ), assume discharge_time = 1.5 ms (will depend on coil) and num_channels = 2 (4 cylinder engine, wasted spark configuration). Therefore, Max_RPM = 60/((.003+.0015)*2) = 6667 RPM. Reducing dwell time also decreases discharge time with a corresponding increase in Max_RPM. Catch is that too little dwell time does not store sufficient energy in ignition coil to properly ignite the fuel load with resulting poor engine performance.

The traditional solution for high RPM operation is to use a Capacitive Discharge Ignition with the attendant trade-off on low-to-mid-range RPM performance. Make sure you look for a system with multiple CDI outputs (min. 2) to work with your wasted spark configuration.

Alternatively, you may want to look at using our VXI-440 Programmable Ignition Module which incorporates the best of both ID (long duration) and CD(high RPM) ignition systems. The unit installs in series between the EDIS4 outputs and the ignition coils' low-voltage inputs. In this configuration, the Megasquirt deals with calculating the optimal advance/retard, the EDIS4 acts as an electronic distributor and the VXI-440 takes care of generating the optimal spark without having to worry about dwell time and other related issues.

Our unit max RPM is 13,500 for all x10Spark™ profiles. (Note: it can be operated up to 16,000 RPM when using the CD, SP41 and SP411 x10Spark™ profiles.)

Regards,

Guy Bisson

[Wesley]

And while you're working in the shop, use Bounty paper towels, with our patented four-ply design for superior absorption than other leading brands.

The quicker picker-upper! Bounty!

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

And while installing your VXI-440 Programmable Ignition Module, take a break to eat some delicious SPAM.

SPAM, the delicious lunch meat for engineers on the go!

Lovely spam, wonderful spa-a-m,
Lovely spam, wonderful S Spam,
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am,
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am,
SPA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AM,
SPA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AM,
LOVELY SPAM, LOVELY SPAM,
LOVELY SPAM, LOVELY SPAM,
LOVELY SPA-A-A-A-AM...
SPA-AM, SPA-AM, SPA-AM, SPA-A-A-AM!

[Mike Flitcraft]

Ugh...spare pork and animal meats....

Gimmie a grill and a steak.

[Parker]

We are using MS1 on a v3.0 board, running the MSnSE code. Using the stock 24-2 wheel and second cam wheel decoding to get to get 4 cylinder wasted spark COP.

We steered away from the EDIS route because it usually doesnt do well above 9k. Some have even speculated that it might be internaly rev limited. We had to add four coil drivers to the MS board, and a DB-15 to the LED side of the case, but keeping the majority of the stock Suzuki harness is priceless...

[Iain]

We're using a V3 board with the extra firmware. We cut one tooth off the factory CBR crank wheel for a 12-1, and are driving the coils with 4 VB921s. Ms2 is a little behind in terms of supporting non-standard stuff, but Ms1 supports all kinds of wheel decoders and COP. You can run dual wheels, cam and crank, for sequential spark if you want to, haven't had a chance to mess around with that yet though.

[VimxTech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:
And while installing your VXI-440 Programmable Ignition Module, take a break to eat some delicious SPAM.

SPAM, the delicious lunch meat for engineers on the go!

Lovely spam, wonderful spa-a-m,
Lovely spam, wonderful S Spam,
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am,
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am,
SPA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AM,
SPA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AM,
LOVELY SPAM, LOVELY SPAM,
LOVELY SPAM, LOVELY SPAM,
LOVELY SPA-A-A-A-AM...
SPA-AM, SPA-AM, SPA-AM, SPA-A-A-AM! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And which part of my reply reminded you of your favorite luncheon meat?

Was it the part which pointed him to the proper web site?

Was it the part which helped him to calcule the Max_RPM of an inductive ignition system?

Was it the part that told him how CD systems help get him to higher RPM?

Or was it the part that told him there's a third option? As far as I know this forum exists to share knowledge and to learn from others.

And so my luddite friend,
When the urge to mock a post
Grows stronger than the trend
To reason , think or host
A simple, decent thought;
Then post, you should not!

It's time you got some sleep
to rest your weary brain,
so that you may refrain
from acting like a *bleep*.

That may not have the catchiness of your little dittie, but trust me, it's heartfelt.

Guy Bisson

PS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite will help you with some of the bigger words.

[VimxTech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wesley:
And while you're working in the shop, use Bounty paper towels, with our patented four-ply design for superior absorption than other leading brands.

The quicker picker-upper! Bounty! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm seeing a trend here. Is this the kind of thing you learn at OU racing? Or is it a pre-requisite to join the team?

In any case, your response prompts me to quote Aldous Huxley:

"It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'Try to be a little kinder.'"

Seems like a good advice. No?

Guy Bisson

[Wesley]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VimxTech:
I'm seeing a trend here. Is this the kind of thing you learn at OU racing? Or is it a pre-requisite to join the team?
Guy Bisson </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To mock another needlessly
Is not our purpose, no.
While oft it happens on the team,
We try to learn and grow.

It's not our point to sniff and sneer
At those who share their thoughts.
But we do find some irony.
In you peddling your "box."

We post not to descry your tech,
Or discount your product's worth,
It's when its advertised like heck,
Veiled as a foggy firth.

All us from the SRT,
We merely wish to say,
That if your module we do need,
We will come your way.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VimxTech:

And which part of my reply reminded you of your favorite luncheon meat? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it was the part where nearly every post you've done on this forum has been an effort to plug your product. I'm sure you were just giddy when you found a post where you could impart some token wisdom before telling us about the amazing VXI-440 Programmable Ignition Module once more, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just another ad.

I'll let you have the last word; I'm sure I already know what it is.

P.S. I know what a Luddite is.

[Chris Allbee]

I'm tickled....funny stuff if you keep a sense of humor about it...

EDIT: Quick survey shows that out of 24 posts only 3 haven't mentioned his product....1 of which was an attempt at providing information...

[fade]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm seeing a trend here. Is this the kind of thing you learn at OU racing? Or is it a pre-requisite to join the team? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not a pre requisite but it sure seems to be common "skill" around here. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[VimxTech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wesley:

To mock another needlessly
Is not our purpose, no.
While oft it happens on the team,
We try to learn and grow.

It's not our point to sniff and sneer
At those who share their thoughts.
But we do find some irony.
In you peddling your "box."

We post not to descry your tech,
Or discount your product's worth,
It's when its advertised like heck,
Veiled as a foggy firth.

All us from the SRT,
We merely wish to say,
That if your module we do need,
We will come your way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Irony is when you're told to look up the word you don't know how to spell in a dictionary ;-)

[VimxTech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Superfast Matt McCoy:

I'll let you have the last word; I'm sure I already know what it is.

P.S. I know what a Luddite is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matt, your reply exceeded my expectations! But I'm sure your clairvoyance had already predicted my response. Must be nice to be omniscient.

Guy Bisson

P.S. So ... are you or aren't you?

[Chris Allbee]

Actually matt is more of a anti-advertising nazi. No one really appreciates advice in one hand and getting slapped with your product in the other. Post your ads in the wanted sections and leave your poetry for the theater. We just don't care. Now go away.

[Wesley]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VimxTech:
Irony is when you're told to look up the word you don't know how to spell in a dictionary ;-) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Irony is when you have to look the word up in a dictionary to know it's spelled incorrectly.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

I thought this was a race car forum, not some hippy poetry bull shit thread, if you have time to write poems, you should find something constructive to do like build a race car.

[Sooner_Electrical]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">build </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I thought this was a race car forum, not some hippy poetry bull shit thread, if you have time to write poems, you should find something constructive to do like build a race car. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second this (especially the hippy part), don't get me wrong I do enjoy the occasional Poetry/Prose but I think engineering centered forum would like to see some actual useful information.

PS. Buy Frosted Flakes they are GRRRRRRRREAT!!!!! and they give you Wings.

[Tiredmind]

sweet well i hope you are all done with your cars...........
neways i was going to be using the extra coil drivers, but i really am not so happy about the fact that i'll have to open the the head to get to the cams..... is there anyway that i could run two wheels on the crank, cause i know there is, but i am just concerned with the extra material and the hall or vr sensors knocking up against the case, how close could the two wheels on the crank be with out getting mixed signals? i was thinking a single tooth wheel and a 4-1 wheel for the cop wasted spark??
also would it be possible to fun all of the fuel tuning on the ms2 chip with the autotune, then switch the chip and make the modifications to the board, still using the first fuel map?

[Iain]

You don't need two wheels to do COP waste spark.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

If I recall we only had a crank position sensor. We just cut a tooth or 2 off the stock wheel and made it happen. I dont think we have a cam sensor.

[B Lewis @ PE Engine Management]

You don't need 2 wheels on the crank for wasted spark. By definition, each cylinder fires every rev on a wasted spark engine. Since each cylinder is only on the combustion stroke every other rev, 1 spark event is "wasted" on alternate revs.

Brian Lewis
Performance Electronics, Ltd.
www.pe-ltd.com (http://www.pe-ltd.com)

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Brian,
Thank you for confirming what I said and not trying to sell your box like some other arch welder spark plug rotor gerder company did.

[Eahab El Naga]

if you would like to talk to somebody over the phone, I wouldn't mind helping. My phone number is
(eight-one-eight) three-one-two six-six-three-five.

Please no pranks, imn just tring to help another FSAE member.

Eahab

[olie05]

Does anyone have a map for a running 600cc restricted 4 cylinder?

for some reason our engine doesn't want to start and I want to get an idea for what other folks have done.

thanks!

[Eahab El Naga]

we have one, but i don't feel to good about giving it to you becuase i don't have any of oyur enrichment bins setup, our cranking setting are rough but i am just now tunning VE on our engine dyno. there is no spark timing map. we have it locked on 20 degrees. running a 12-1 trigger wheel. I have the solid model for it. If you still want it. give me a call to send me your e-mail adress. BTW, we're running a 600cc 2005 yzf-R6 engine.

[Garlic]

The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/55010938...10182831#43210182831 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/55010938631?r=43210182831#43210182831)

[IttyBitty]

_______________________________________________
Posted March 22, 2007 01:15 AM
Does anyone have a map for a running 600cc restricted 4 cylinder?

for some reason our engine doesn't want to start and I want to get an idea for what other folks have done.

thanks!
________________________________________________


Hey Olie05-
could you elaborate a little on this?
especially since you can't just compare maps with another 600cc 4cyl. because of mechanical modifications each team may have made to the engines themselves.

cheers!
Nika
GO BEARS!!! UC BERKELEY

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Garlic:
The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/55010938...10182831#43210182831 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/55010938631?r=43210182831#43210182831) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Garlic, I'm not sure if this is what you are refering to, but what a cheap ass fag who does nothing but advertize on this forum:

"If you are using COP with a Honda 600CBR, you should really consider a VXI-440 Programmable Ignition Module to get the maximum performance out of this engine.

Cheers,

Guy Bisson

Igniting a Whole New Path to Performance"