shallow wet oil sump

[Diablo_niterider]

hey ,

we are planning a sump reduction on a 2003 f4i PC35.
According to my calculations i would be able to reduce sump height by 35mm which is achieved by routing the relief valve and modifying the strainer.
this results in an overall volume reduction of 800 ml of oil in the entire system .(we are adding baffles too )

I would like to know
- if the loss of 800ml of oil cause any issues according to u guys .
- i am going to overfill a little to compensate , would there be a problem if the crank vr is completely submerged in oil.

dnt want to take a chance , engines in india cost at about 6-7k euros.

Hiren Patel
Powertrain Co-ordinator 2007-09
Orion Racing India
www.orion-racing.com (http://www.orion-racing.com)

[Diablo_niterider]

hey ,

we are planning a sump reduction on a 2003 f4i PC35.
According to my calculations i would be able to reduce sump height by 35mm which is achieved by routing the relief valve and modifying the strainer.
this results in an overall volume reduction of 800 ml of oil in the entire system .(we are adding baffles too )

I would like to know
- if the loss of 800ml of oil cause any issues according to u guys .
- i am going to overfill a little to compensate , would there be a problem if the crank vr is completely submerged in oil.

dnt want to take a chance , engines in india cost at about 6-7k euros.

Hiren Patel
Powertrain Co-ordinator 2007-09
Orion Racing India
www.orion-racing.com (http://www.orion-racing.com)

[Fyhr]

you don't want the crank to spin around in the oil, it will make you lose power, create alot of foam in the oil and lots of other problems.

I'm no engine guy but keeping the oil sump separated from the crank is very important and many race engines even have separate scraping plates to get rid of oil stuck at the crank.

[Diablo_niterider]

i mean the crank Variable Reluctance sensor only , not the crank

[civicsit]

You might want to keep an eye on oil temps.

[Drew Price]

Adding a cooler and the plumbing might be able to make up that much volume loss. Not too hard to figure out I imagine.

Agree with Karl, that was my initial concern.

Is the pickup on the 'bottom' of the generator wheel? Will the wheel be spinning in oil? Having no experience on the matter, I can't think why it wouldn't work, you could always move the pickup closer to the wheel, and/or add a scraper in front of the pickup if it ends up causing a problem.

Best,
Drew

[PatClarke]

Diabolo,
Read this
http://www.formulastudent.de/public-relations/fsg-news/...ts-column-october-1/ (http://www.formulastudent.de/public-relations/fsg-news/news-details/article/pats-column-october-1/)

Pat

[Mike Hart]

We've run a reduced depth sump for 4 years now with no adverse affects, although the R6 has a very high crank in comparison to the split line of the sump. I wasn't the one that did the calcs, but if designed properly then you can overcome the worst of the surge problems with decent baffles. There are plenty of cars out there with similar setups and most of the engines can deal with 0Bar oil pressure for a few moments. Hell....the R6 in last years car lasted about 6-7km at high revs with 0 oil pressure at FSG....the engine wasn't exactly happy at the end of those k's but it shows how tough they can be!

If I were you, I'd look at how important lowering your engine is and compare it to the amount of work it requires and time you have. If you can do it properly, do it and justify it in design. If you don't have time, stick with the standard sump and try and lie your driver down a bit more!

[Horace]

Pat talks about Accupump in that article. I found it surprising that there isn't anything about Accupumps on this forum. Does anyone know anything about them, how they are installed and how they work?

[PatClarke]

Accusump, Horace, Accusump =]
Pat

[jpusb]

I don't really think you'll have the crank spining on oil, not even close. In the CBR you have the whole gearbox and stuff, the crank is a lot higher than that.
We have been running a lowered sump for a bout 5 years without any problems at all. Just do your baffle work, check oil pressure after modifying the oil pressure relief and you're good to go.

[Diablo_niterider]

hello everyone
first of all thank you for your replies sorry was caught up with loads of engine work so couldn't reply sooner,


we are going ahead with the sump reduction

1. as for the 800 ml loss of oil issue , we just realized that the oil level sight glass on the clutch cover has an upper meniscus and a lower one , and the difference in the amount of oil roughly works out to be more than 500ml for sure , hence we should be safe that way .

2. I have managed to isolate the the crank vr sensor such that there is same amount of oil in that section as used to be in the stock.


as for accusump

i think its a nice system ,

we can directly connect the main line from the accusump to the main oil gallery which in the Honda cbr 600f4i is directly accessible , it is situated either side of the engine but the clutch side can be used as it is external
i m talking about the golden colored bolt which is openable using an Alan key . this is provided for the oil pressure gauge to be connected to the engine

while the electric valve can be directly connected to the stock oil pressure switch which will automatically actuate the system .

seems amazingly simple and a days work to me
provided with the right accessories of course

Hiren Patel
Powertrain Co-ordinator 2007-09
Orion Racing INDIA
www.orion-racing.com (http://www.orion-racing.com)