intake mounting

[Rohit_Kumar]

i have honda cbr 600RR engine and it was mounted on cylinder head using rubber mounts and clamps but in FSAE rule book it is mentioned that:
"The intake manifold must be securely attached to the engine block or cylinder head with brackets and mechanical fasteners. This precludes the use of hose clamps, plastic ties, or safety wires. The use of rubber bushings or hose is acceptable for creating and sealing air passages, but is not considered a structural attachment."

someone please tell me how do the teams mount intake on engine head?

so can i use those rubber mounts as it is and give some extra support to intake, will that be acceptable?

can any one send me a picture of how do they mount their intake on engine head?

email id: rkac94@rediffmail.com

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Metallic straps welded to the sides of the plenum that then bolt to somewhere on the head are the usual method that I've seen. Get creative!

-Kirk

[AndrewTC]

You can use the rubber mounts with hose clamps to seal and connect the intake. This setup does the job just fine, but as you stated does not meet the rule. As a bypass, a small standoff can be installed. Take a sliver of sheet metal and use it to connect the intake to something structural. Put one bolt through a tab on the intake, and the other side bolted to the motor/frame/etc.

Edit: Kirk beat me to it!

[PatClarke]

Andrew,

Just a small correction to your advice. You cannot secure the plenum to the frame. The fixing must be to the engine/cylinder head.

BTW, us engineers refer to those things with valves and pistons and spark-plugs as 'engines'. The motor is the device used to start the engine http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers

Pat

[murpia]

Originally posted by PatClarke:
BTW, us engineers refer to those things with valves and pistons and spark-plugs as 'engines'.
Only in countries that have officially adopted the metric / SI system... http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Regards, Ian

[Bemo]

If required it is allowed to secure the plenum to the frame, but in this case you have to use some sort of rubber bushing to allow some movement between the frame and the plenum to make sure that the movement of the engine within the frame doesn't put structural loads into the plenum.
Attaching it to the engine only is definitely the best way to go.

[PatClarke]

Hi Bemo,

I beg to differ. The rule is...

Intake Manifold – The intake manifold must be securely attached to the engine block or cylinder head with brackets and mechanical fasteners. This precludes the use of hose clamps, plastic ties, or safety wires. The use of rubber bushings or hose is acceptable for creating and sealing air passages, but is not considered a structural attachment.


The allowance for flexible mountings is to prevent cracking or other failures of the intake system, it does not permit the manifold to be retained by brackets, flexible or otherwise, to the frame.

The reason is simple. There can be no situation where engine movement could cause the manifold/plenum to become detached from the cylinder head. This would allow the engine to run wide open without a throttle and so is a critical safety issue!

Pat

[NickFavazzo]

Just taking a quick glance at this and haven't checked a rule book in a while but I'm certain you are allowed to mount to parts other than the engine assembly provided the mounting method accounts for any relative movements (ie soft rubber bushing) since the rule has come in we have done it as out intake is "of cantilever style"

Maybe we are confusing primary attachment methods/rules and mountings for "special types"?

[Canuck Racing]

The intake must be securely attached to the engine. It may also be attached to other things as long as those connections allow for ample compliance so they don't stress the intake.

[dmacke]

Back when our team ran a 4 cylinder I think we used an aluminum plate to connect the intake to the motor. We used set screws to secure the aluminum plate to the motor.

[Bemo]

Pat, I think you got me wrong here. I didn't want to say that attaching the plenum flexibly to the frame replaces the attachement to the engine block.
The plenum has to be securely attached to the engine block in any case. It is definitely allowed (I've been a scrutineer in a couple of events during the last two years) to have additional attachements to the frame if they are flexible enough.

Sorry Pat, you stopped quoting the rule to early, the next sentence is:
IC1.4.4 Intake systems with significant mass or cantilever from the cylinder head must be supported to prevent stress to the intake system. Supports to the engine must be rigid. Supports to the frame or chassis must incorporate some isolation to allow for engine movement and chassis flex.

Flexible supports to the frame are explicitely allowed here http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PatClarke]

Bemo,

Rather than try score points here, go back and read what the original poster asked!

Pat

[Bemo]

Pat, I don't want to "score points" here. If you correct other people, do you only try to "score points". I wanted to clarify something here to make sure, no one gets a wrong impression of what is allowed and what not. If that hurts your ego, that's not my problem.

I just wanted to make sure that he knew what exactly is allowed and what not, sorry if for non-English speakers this isn't always easy. Your post gives the impression that it is in any case forbidden to connect the plenum to the frame. This is not the case.

I admit that my mistake was to use the word "secure" in my first post here. Attachement to the frame are additional, but as it was said before a couple of times, in all cases the plenum has to be securely fixed to the engine block.

[BluSTi]

Do points scored here transfer to team points at competition?

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Warpspeed]

Originally posted by PatClarke:
BTW, us engineers refer to those things with valves and pistons and spark-plugs as 'engines'.

Pat

Over here, we foreigners have a government department of motor vehicles, and just about all of them there vehicles have motors with valves, pistons and spark-plugs