Cane Creek Dampers

[Maurini]

I was wondering if anyone with experience running the new cane creek double barrel dampers could share their thoughts with respect to performacne and adjustability. I believe that the University of Toronto team used these dampers for their 06 car, so if anyone from the UofT suspension team could comment it would be appreciated.

Did you have to do substancial work to the internals to make it work for FSAE?

Did you have to manufacturer any needles or shims?

How is the repeatability between dampers and does the "pedalling platform" have a negative impact on performance?

Thanks for the help,

Marc Maurini
University of Windsor

[Maurini]

I was wondering if anyone with experience running the new cane creek double barrel dampers could share their thoughts with respect to performacne and adjustability. I believe that the University of Toronto team used these dampers for their 06 car, so if anyone from the UofT suspension team could comment it would be appreciated.

Did you have to do substancial work to the internals to make it work for FSAE?

Did you have to manufacturer any needles or shims?

How is the repeatability between dampers and does the "pedalling platform" have a negative impact on performance?

Thanks for the help,

Marc Maurini
University of Windsor

[jack]

UTA had them at west

[Maurini]

Can anyone from the UTA team comment on what had to be done to the internals for FSAE use? Are there aftermarket rebuild kits avaliable for revalving that will work with the Cane Creek Double Barrel.

[KevinD]

we did nothing to the internals.

Texas A&M was gracious enough to dyno all 4 of the shocks for us. each shock was extremely close to the others. i would say all 4 were within 5% of each other for a given setting ( i do have the dyno plots here but i'm gonna say that stuff is proprietary to us and A&M). i will say that they were much better then the fox, and they never leaked at all... something the risse did straight out of the box. although i don't have any data to back this up, i remember someone from A&M saying the fox shocks were horribly inconsistant from one shock to another, with damping values being off by as much as 50% from one shock to another. our move to switch do a different shock from the fox was driven by noticably different times from one direction to the other on the skid pad, attributed to inconsistant shocks.

[Maurini]

Kevin, thanks for the input.

Did the "pedalling platform" (low speed bump and rebound) have any noticeable impact on performance, or did you do most of the tuning with respect to the high speed setting? Most mountain bikers would have a pedalling frequency of 1Hz-2.5Hz (or so I have been told) which is for the most part far below what an FSAE car would experience.

Marc

[BStoney]

I will agree with Kevin (UTA). The Fox dampers really need to be completely re-built in order to acheive consistency between dampers. However, you will pay a pretty penny for the Cane Creek's versus the other mountain bike shocks.

Kevin,
Did you have any problems getting the spring rates you wanted for the Cane Creeks?

[KevinD]

getting the spring rates we wanted was not a problem. we started with some softer springs... 300lb i beleive. but turned out we made WAAAAY more downforce then originally anticipated (maybe even a lack of design foresight honestly), but at 60 mph with the 300 lbers we were dragging across the ground. we then ordered some 450 lb springs, they gave us a killer deal, i beleive shipping was more then all 4 springs (like 5 dollars each or something silly like that). all in all, cane creek had the most outstand customer service of any company i have ever dealt with. i spoke with an engineer each time, and orders were very quick to get here.

[js10coastr]

I'll second the customer service with Cane Creek... I ordered a rebuild/upgrade kit for my AD-10 on my mtn bike and the service was pretty damn good. Talked to the same guy each time I called and he was knowledeable about the product and the rebuild kits. On top of that, for $38 I turned my AD-10 into an AD-12.

[LU-Bolton]

Hey guys, These dampers look and sound like a quality product worth looking into. However, I have seen prices of around $650 a piece. Can you guys comment? Do they really cost this much? Hopefully they're cheaper, otherwise off to more fundraising.

Aaron Cassebeer
2007 Lehigh Team Leader

[KevinD]

yes that sounds about right. couple things to note, the 650 price was with the springs, also with the bearings already pressed in them. that is something you have to do on your own with say the foxes. they come with a pretty manual on how to make adjustments with both the low and high speed compression and rebound. and they even come with a dyno test results to ensure they have been individually tested. the engineer i talk to said they try to match them up as much as possible for us formula guys as we are the largers purchasers of that shock. he mentioned mt bikers buy on average 1 shock a week so it is low production and all hand built.

[Maurini]

Kevin, do you know the name of the engineer you were speaking with at Cane Creek?

Marc

[John Valerio]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Originally posted by KevinD:
i remember someone from A&M saying the fox shocks were horribly inconsistant from one shock to another, with damping values being off by as much as 50% from one shock to another. our move to switch do a different shock from the fox was driven by noticably different times from one direction to the other on the skid pad, attributed to inconsistant shocks.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We tested our fox shocks in house and they were also within 5%


John Valerio
Queen's FSAE

[KevinD]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maurini:
Kevin, do you know the name of the engineer you were speaking with at Cane Creek?

Marc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i spoke with Malcolm Hadley

malcolm@canecreek.com

[Chris Allbee]

Its not the Fox dampers that have the crappy quality (from unit to unit). The Risse dampers based on the Fox shocks are the pieces of crap. We have used them the last two years (this last year they were kind of grandfathered in on the fact that we didn't have the time to package a new shock) and we have had to send each one back at least 2-3 times. They would arrive leaking and we would send them back. 3 months later we would get them back and they wouldn't be charged with nitrogen. The third time we would get them back they would have enough stiction that you would need to stand on them to get them to move even with settings all the way down. Oh, and the compression setting changes the rebound as well and the rebound setting does nearly jack squat. In short, avoid these shocks like the plague.

[Iloper]

Chalmers run with Öhlins equipped Cane Creek dampers.

mounted dampers (http://www.me.chalmers.se/formula/2006/html/media/imgbrowse.php?gn=42&pg=4&lang=en&mp=build_pictures_june&fn=9.jpg)

Bad pic, I know.

But since I'm an engine guy, I dont now much else about them, except that they might be a bit expensive...

I think Cane Creek and Öhlins have some kind of cooperation together, therefore this was possible.

/Per
CNC gury CFS

[jack]

the Cane Creek dampers are Ohlins dampers (with a Cane Creek sticker).

[RacingManiac]

Our experience with the Cane Creek is pretty much the same as KevinD mentioned. We didn't have to do anything to the internal to get them to be where we wanted them to be. Comparing to the past dyno data we got from using Arvin Meritor's dyno we know that they are very consistant between the dampers(unlike DHX5s) and their compression and rebound adjustment are completely independent, again an improvement over the DHX5s....

In Formula Student the team from TU Munich also uses Cane Creek.

[B Hise]

is that the Ohlins ST44 or TT44 or TT40?

who adjusts gas pressure for grip?

[Conor]

Is everyone using the same Cane Creek model or is there a variety of setups out there? The double barrels are awesome, but I think the most our team will be able to afford are the cloud nines. Is anybody using an even lesser priced model that they still consider very suitable for our application?

[Maurini]

This is probably a long shot..... but does anyone have a Solidworks or CAD file of the double barrel cane creek dampers that they won't mind sharing?

Thanks,

Marc

[KevinD]

you can order then in different lengths and sizes. they are completely customizable. just give them a call and they can give you a data sheet with the different sizes availible, and spec them the way you need them.

[Steve Yao]

All references to use of the 'Cane Creek' dampers in FSAE are for the Double Barrel shock. As mentioned, it was designed in a tech partnership with Öhlins.

The Cloud Nine is completely different.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Conor:
Is everyone using the same Cane Creek model or is there a variety of setups out there? The double barrels are awesome, but I think the most our team will be able to afford are the cloud nines. Is anybody using an even lesser priced model that they still consider very suitable for our application? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Chris_S]

Considering running mountainbike shocks on Uh11. Weight saving, packaging, cost.

Has anyone had any problems with overheating with any of the shocks ?

[Conor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SEY:
All references to use of the 'Cane Creek' dampers in FSAE are for the Double Barrel shock. As mentioned, it was designed in a tech partnership with Öhlins.

The Cloud Nine is completely different.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Conor:
Is everyone using the same Cane Creek model or is there a variety of setups out there? The double barrels are awesome, but I think the most our team will be able to afford are the cloud nines. Is anybody using an even lesser priced model that they still consider very suitable for our application? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That answers everyting. Thanks.

[meatman10523]

Does any one have numbers on there lengths, i think there are several options but iam having trouble reaching any from cane creek

[BStoney]

If you need the documents from Cane Creek, go out to their webpage and submit a request. They I am sure will be happy to send them to you.

[KU_Racing]

Chris, we have used the MTB dampers for several years. I wouldnt say we have had an overheating problem, but as many other teams will tell you there are issues with the quality control and damping consistency of the MTB shocks from most manufacturers (most are Risse or Fox I believe). In my opinion, the benefits of the extra control, quality, support, and adjustability that you get with the cane creek/ohlins dampers far exceed the weight benefit of the MTB shocks... however this comes down to your design philosophy, and what you are willing to sacrifice- weight or grip.