Spambots

[Big Bird]

An open letter to the moderators of this forum (and I know who are running this forum on a volunteer basis, so I don't wish to add to your workload)

We seem to have an infestation of spambots in the last few weeks, who are picking key words out of topics and then pasting some text from elsewhere on the net into the thread - with obligatory spam links. I tried contacting the forums about this via the "contact us" link, but it seems my mail didn't get through.

Key "offenders" are some "new members" such as:
mano
anna
sathya
kutty2009
kalai
adam2012
phillip1111

It has got so bad that the spambots are now starting to talk to each other, which is making for some incredibly dull conversation.

Is there any way that new members can be vetted such that their identity can be verified before being allowed to post?

Probably impossible, but worth asking.

Cheers,

[RiNaZ]

I tried to catch these as much as i can and delete them, but i dont have the capability to block a user.

If you see any, let me know and i'll delete it.

[vreihen]

Originally posted by Big Bird:
It has got so bad that the spambots are now starting to talk to each other, which is making for some incredibly dull conversation.


I saw one of them that actually contributed more useful information than many forum members from (name of country deleted), and am still chuckling at the one from last night that posted on the "train drivers" thread with information on working for the railroad in the UK.

I've been reporting them with the little exclamation point triangle thingy on each spammed post when I find them, and it seems to get their posts removed after a little while.



Is there any way that new members can be vetted such that their identity can be verified before being allowed to post?

I assume that you've seen CAPTCHA (that funny, wavy text image that you have to type into a box on a web page to show that you're a real person) being used on numerous web sites.

The problem with CAPTCHA is that in third-world countries like Nigeria, $1.00/hour is good pay. Instead of investing heavily in artificial intelligence to crack CAPTCHA codes, the spambot operators are feeding the CAPTCHA images into third-world "sweatshops" via an elaborate web system. The laborers are getting paid to sit in front of a web browser and type CAPTCHA codes all day, getting a fraction of a penny for each one that's successful. The code gets sent back to the spambot, and it passes CAPTCHA. A fast typist can make a penny every minute, which is good pay for them.

The only other automated option for screening new users is the e-mail confirmation when they sign up. According to my statistics, there's 50 @live.com e-mail addresses created for every person in Nigeria, and it would be trivial to set up a market for random online forum accounts similar to the one that's already being run in Nigeria for phished user accounts to other services. Long story short, there's a whole underground economy at work here, and no simple solution for stopping people from getting accounts for spambots.

Of course, new users could be set to moderated status until they make some legitimate contributions to the forum, but even then you can see that the spambots are capable of making posts that could pass as being on-topic. The labor involved with managing moderated posts is also a factor.

Short of cutting off communications links to the third world, there's not much that can be done about these online abuses.....

[vreihen]

Hey, I just thought of the quickest fix to this problem. Simply re-configure the forum software so that it does not post hyper-linked URL's in messages! These spambots are out to spread their links to improve their search engine listings, and not being able to post links in messages would make posting in this forum useless to them.

I doubt that the forum software has the option to moderate only posts that contain URL links, but that would certainly be a way to slow these particular spambots down since they all include web links as a fingerprint in their posts.....

[Zac]

can anyone do an IP ban? my guess is that this is coming from a handful of servers.

[Mike Macie]

How about when you register you have to type in those image verification things that are a pain to read. There's also forum upgrades that you can add that will ban anyone that registers faster than the time it would take a normal person to do so.

[vreihen]

Originally posted by Mike Macie:
How about when you register you have to type in those image verification things that are a pain to read.

This is CAPTCHA, and as I said above, the spammers have figured out how to get around it by harnessing third-world labor to physically sit and type them in a sweatshop.....

[jrickert]

Your not going to find any solution that is 100% effective. Captcha would probably reduce the frequency of spammers. Another option would be to ask an elementary question about fsae. IE "which of the following is not a dynamic event in FSAE: fuel economy, crash safety, autocross or acceleration".this would probably deter 99% of spammers.

Of course we occasionally have interesting threads by people outside fsae. This might exclude these people.

[Kirby]

I agree with all above.

However I also believe that now would be a good time to revamp fsae.com. The age of the software is beginning to show.

Things like a common image gallery, wiki, new forum system could aid in the community.

[jrickert]

AMEN for a revamp!

In high school i was involved in a similar design-build-compete style competition called FIRST. One of the teams started an excellent forumchiefdelphi.com I feel we need something more like this. You can upload pictures, whitepapers etc. It uses vbulletin which is my favorite forum software (but not free). PHPbb is almost as good. I would also like to see more forum categories IE: suspension, drivetrain, team management etc. It seemed that on chiefdelphi.com (http://chiefdelphi) there was a more open community with alot of knowledge sharing from the more experienced to the newer and less experienced. I don't know if this will even be possible in FSAE. The people who know things want to stay in the top by not giving away their secrets. This is understandable and i am guilty as well but it detracts from the educational process. I think more open knowledge would improve the quality of everyone's cars. I think many newcomers to these forums are afraid to ask questions on these forums for fear of making their team sound ignorant. The same goes for answering questions. It doesn't help that there are a few trolls on here ready to quell the curiosity of any newb who dares ask a question by dismissing them with figure it out yourself/use the search/rtfm.

I have been contemplating starting my own more modern FSAE forum for some time.

[jrickert]

It is definately time to update things a bit.

I used to be involved in a similar design-build-compete style competition (only without static events grrr). One of the teams started an excellent forum called chiefdelphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com) which could serve as a model of what we need for FSAE. They often get >100 posts a day. It has a forum, place to upload pictures, whitepapers, files, news blog etc. It runs vBulletin which is perhaps my favorite forum software. vBulletin is not free but there are others that are free and close in quality (phpBB). A new FSAE forum might benefit from new better categories. "Open FSAE Disscussion and "Dynamic events" are a bit broad. Better categories might be "Autocross, Acceleration, Suspension, Drivetrain, etc. Most forum packages have scripts for migrating threads over from other forum packages.

I've been comtemplating starting another FSAE forum for quite some time. I have been reluctant to do so, because traffic on this one is already slow and i don't want to dilute the flow of information.

That said, a better forum might encourage more posting.

I found it interesting that people were much more open and there was WAY more traffic on chiefdelphi.com (http://chiefdelphi.com) . I should note that the FIRST competition is at 42 competitions and growing while our organizers are struggling to keep 2 together. That aside, it seems that people are often afraid to ask questions on this forum for fear of ridicule or making their team seem ignorant. I sometimes feel we have fostered a culture of elitism on this forum where it is not okay to be in the beginning stages of a quest for knowledge. Everybody starts at the beginning and in my opinion more experienced teams should do everything they can to help new team. This is the only way this competition will stay alive and prosper. I don't post on this forum as oftne as a read it. I have noticed more oftne than necessary the only thing being shared is ego. Often when a newb asks a legitimate question he is met with a sarcastic answer/SBYP/RTFR. More knowledgeable people are afraid to ask or answer questions for fear of of showing uncertainty. I'm not condemning this forum as a whole. By and large it is a positive influence on the community. Like everything in racing we should strive to be even better. Perhaps a new forum would help this.

[jrickert]

It is definately time to update things a bit.

I used to be involved in a similar design-build-compete style competition (only without static events grrr). One of the teams started an excellent forum called chiefdelphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com) which could serve as a model of what we need for FSAE. They often get >100 posts a day. It has a forum, place to upload pictures, whitepapers, files, news blog etc. It runs vBulletin which is perhaps my favorite forum software. vBulletin is not free but there are others that are free and close in quality (phpBB). A new FSAE forum might benefit from new better categories. "Open FSAE Disscussion and "Dynamic events" are a bit broad. Better categories might be "Autocross, Acceleration, Suspension, Drivetrain, etc. Most forum packages have scripts for migrating threads over from other forum packages.

I've been comtemplating starting another FSAE forum for quite some time. I have been reluctant to do so, because traffic on this one is already slow and i don't want to dilute the flow of information.

That said, a better forum might encourage more posting.

I found it interesting that people were much more open and there was WAY more traffic on chiefdelphi.com (http://chiefdelphi.com) . I should note that the FIRST competition is at 42 competitions and growing while our organizers are struggling to keep 2 together. That aside, it seems that people are often afraid to ask questions on this forum for fear of ridicule or making their team seem ignorant. I sometimes feel we have fostered a culture of elitism on this forum where it is not okay to be in the beginning stages of a quest for knowledge. Everybody starts at the beginning and in my opinion more experienced teams should do everything they can to help new team. This is the only way this competition will stay alive and prosper. I don't post on this forum as oftne as a read it. I have noticed more oftne than necessary the only thing being shared is ego. Often when a newb asks a legitimate question he is met with a sarcastic answer/SBYP/RTFR. More knowledgeable people are afraid to ask or answer questions for fear of of showing uncertainty. I'm not condemning this forum as a whole. By and large it is a positive influence on the community. Like everything in racing we should strive to be even better. Perhaps a new forum would help this.

[exFSAE]

Originally posted by vreihen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Macie:
How about when you register you have to type in those image verification things that are a pain to read.

This is CAPTCHA, and as I said above, the spammers have figured out how to get around it by harnessing third-world labor to physically sit and type them in a sweatshop..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow.. seriously??

[Zac]

yes, seriously.

the other way of breaking a captcha is to send the image to a false captcha on a high traffic(read: porn) site the attacker owns.

[FSAE.com]

hey guys,

thanks for the suggestions on how to handle the spambots that have recently appeared.

as a quick fix, moderators have been deleting posts and users that are identified as spambots.

certain posts are also being flagged for moderator approval based on keywords, thus the occasional posting delays that have been brought up in other threads.

we'll be taking a closer look at other counter-measures this week.

thanks!

Ennis
ennis@witnessracing.com

[vreihen]

Originally posted by exFSAE:
Wow.. seriously??

Look at this "job posting" from 2006, where 58 people bid $100 or less to work a 50-hour week answering CAPTCHAs:

http://www.getafreelancer.com/...y-Solve-CAPTCHA.html (http://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/Data-Processing-Data-Entry/Data-Entry-Solve-CAPTCHA.html)

If you read the responses, one person brags about being into "SEO" (search engine optimization), which is EXACTLY what's behind the spambots invading this forum right now.....

[Adambomb]

Originally posted by jrickert:
That sounds distracting if you are busy looking at porn.

LMAO...

[RobbyObby]

Alright this has got to be a first! A spambot posting on a thread about all the spambots telling us all how the spambots get access to the forums. LMAO.

[theTTshark]

Originally posted by RobbyObby:
Alright this has got to be a first! A spambot posting on a thread about all the spambots telling us all how the spambots get access to the forums. LMAO.
Oh god, they're become sentinel. It's only a matter of time before the Drivenator comes back through time to replace all human race car drivers! NOOOO!!!!

[RobbyObby]

Its already happening to the Military. It's only a matter of time until they find their way into the automotive industry. Those Google cars aren't helping our cause either!

[Z]

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ahh, progress!!! Ain't it grand!

http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Warpspeed]

How about having a spam flag button that any Forum user can hit ?

At the very least it could be used to draw the attention of the Moderators.

Maybe it could eventually be automated with some algorithm to zap the post entirely if some annoyance threshold were crossed with sufficient flags.

[AxelRipper]

Originally posted by Warpspeed:
How about having a spam flag button that any Forum user can hit ?

At the very least it could be used to draw the attention of the Moderators.

Maybe it could eventually be automated with some algorithm to zap the post entirely if some annoyance threshold were crossed with sufficient flags.

There is a small triangle with an exclamation point in it on the bottom right of every post that can be used to notify the mods. The problem is, I'm not really sure who the mods are around here. I've volunteered a few times to help clean up the board, but to no avail.

[mech5496]

It starts to get really annoying... I was trying to read some thread the other day, and the last four or so posts were from bots! Someone please delete them? Please?

[Thrainer]

Originally posted by AxelRipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warpspeed:
How about having a spam flag button that any Forum user can hit ?

At the very least it could be used to draw the attention of the Moderators. ...

There is a small triangle with an exclamation point in it on the bottom right of every post that can be used to notify the mods. ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have used the "Report this post" button for Spambot posts many times and the moderators removed not only the post but the user reliably. But I do agree it's one of the great mysteries who is running this forum http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[ed_pratt]

Hahaha it's another one!