LETTER OF INVITATION

[scott rabbit]

Dear Teams?
I, Jianlai Yan, am the minister of China SAE Exhibition Department and act as the secretary-general of Formula Student China committee.
Formula Student China was first started in 2010.After two years development there are about 50 native teams to participate in 2012 Formula Student China. Formula Student China has owned conditions for expanding the scale of events and attracting overseas teams now.
Therefore, 2012 FSC opens moderately to the world for the purpose of promoting communication among teenagers, so the committee sincerely invites no more than 5 teams to join us.

Event Date?October 15th to 19th 2012
Competition Site?Shanghai International Circuit?China

Please contact to
Attn ?Mr. Hao Xu
Mobile?+86 01063370260
E-mail?question@formulastudent.com.cn
URL?www.formulastudent.com.cn

Yours sincerely
Jianlai Yan
The Minister of China SAE Exhibition Department
The Secretary-General of Formula Student China committee

[Fantomas]

Will you again change your interpretation of the rules and manipulate results on the fly to prevent an oversea team from winning your competition like you did it last year with the guys from Munich?

Oh and by the way:
Dividing domestic teams in group A (even if they may choose to participate in group B, but they will not, if they are smart) and oversea teams in group B while giving away different awards etc. is pathetic.

Fantomas

[ZAMR]

Now I'd really like to hear this story...

How does a team win design, accel, skidpad, autox, and endurance and still lose the competition?

[Ben K]

Originally posted by Fantomas:
Will you again change your interpretation of the rules and manipulate results on the fly to prevent an oversea team from winning your competition like you did it last year with the guys from Munich?

Oh and by the way:
Dividing domestic teams in group A (even if they may choose to participate in group B, but they will not, if they are smart) and oversea teams in group B while giving away different awards etc. is pathetic.

Fantomas

What the heck? I didn't hear this one....

[Warpspeed]

Jianlai
Jianlai
So only a maximum of five foreign teams are allowed to compete against your fifty teams ?

I have a much better idea.
One Chinese team only, chosen by lottery, against the five foreign teams.

[JT A.]

I can't decide which I'd like to see more...

No foreign teams go there

Or 5 foreign teams go there and finish 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[scott rabbit]

Originally posted by Fantomas:
Will you again change your interpretation of the rules and manipulate results on the fly to prevent an oversea team from winning your competition like you did it last year with the guys from Munich?

Oh and by the way:
Dividing domestic teams in group A (even if they may choose to participate in group B, but they will not, if they are smart) and oversea teams in group B while giving away different awards etc. is pathetic.

Fantomas
This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.

[Jay Lawrence]

Why not bring some Chinese teams to more well established events (FSAE-A, FS, USA, etc.)? You will certainly learn more, as will your teams. Makes a lot more sense than throwing out an open invitation to international teams who've never seen a FSC car before and who can't trust your competition.

[scott rabbit]

Originally posted by Jay Lawrence:
Why not bring some Chinese teams to more well established events (FSAE-A, FS, USA, etc.)? You will certainly learn more, as will your teams. Makes a lot more sense than throwing out an open invitation to international teams who've never seen a FSC car before and who can't trust your competition.
we are trying to partcipate in some well established events,but it needs time.After all,you have held it for many years,today is our third year.we admit that we have plenty of shortages,but we are trying our best to organize the competition,we believe that it will be better.

[jlangholzj]

Originally posted by scott rabbit:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jay Lawrence:
Why not bring some Chinese teams to more well established events (FSAE-A, FS, USA, etc.)? You will certainly learn more, as will your teams. Makes a lot more sense than throwing out an open invitation to international teams who've never seen a FSC car before and who can't trust your competition.
we are trying to partcipate in some well established events,but it needs time.After all,you have held it for many years,today is our third year.we admit that we have plenty of shortages,but we are trying our best to organize the competition,we believe that it will be better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then why not leave it open to as many foreign teams as possible? Being at competition is as much of a learning experience as being in a classroom. You're setting yourself up for ridicule leaving 50 native teams against 5 foreign teams...if you're going to do it, do it right please. we're not here to make anyone look bad, we're just here to race and have a fun time. if you want the Chinese teams to grow, it would be better to expose them to as many other designs as possible.

[scott rabbit]

Originally posted by jlangholzj:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scott rabbit:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jay Lawrence:
Why not bring some Chinese teams to more well established events (FSAE-A, FS, USA, etc.)? You will certainly learn more, as will your teams. Makes a lot more sense than throwing out an open invitation to international teams who've never seen a FSC car before and who can't trust your competition.
we are trying to partcipate in some well established events,but it needs time.After all,you have held it for many years,today is our third year.we admit that we have plenty of shortages,but we are trying our best to organize the competition,we believe that it will be better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then why not leave it open to as many foreign teams as possible? Being at competition is as much of a learning experience as being in a classroom. You're setting yourself up for ridicule leaving 50 native teams against 5 foreign teams...if you're going to do it, do it right please. we're not here to make anyone look bad, we're just here to race and have a fun time. if you want the Chinese teams to grow, it would be better to expose them to as many other designs as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is a word that you can't build up your constitution on one mouthful.that means ,we still have sth to consummate step by step.we will open for all the world teams without any restriction in the next few years.

[Fantomas]

This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.

Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

Fantomas

[Warpspeed]

Well Jianlai,
What do you have to say about that ?

Truly, we all wish to see the Chinese teams do really well.

But there is also something called loss of face.

As the minister for Chinese FSAE you now have a much longer and a much steeper slope to climb than should have otherwise been the case.

Think about it, and learn from it and I am sure you will have great future success in FSAE.

[jerry_tung]

I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.

[CNFish]

I feel like I'm not a Chinese now......It seems like something I don't know was happened in last year game....Well,I really want other teams come to FSC so that I can see how others design their car right in the game instead of in the picture..We need to grow. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[mscwu]

i don't think the competition was as good as it is 30 years ago in the US. The Chinese organizers along with the Chinese teams should take initiatives to make it appealing to top notch teams. Three years is no short time and clearly the committee thinks we are not "qualified" enough to compete with foreign teams. Well, actually we don't think the same way. We participating teams are trying our best to catch up.Hope the committee is spending at least the same effort as we do, because we are working on this all day long ,dude---------comments from first year Chinese team.

[TMichaels]

Beijing Institute of Technology, the winning team of Formula Student China 2011, will participate in this year's Formula Student Germany. I'm quite curious to see them perform, especially since they managed to win Acceleration at FS Japan 2011.

[jerry_tung]

Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.

Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think your resource is not reliable. From what I know, Munich did not want to go if they could not compete and win. The officials got a lot of money from the big sponsors who want to see a winning Chinese team so it went ugly. It's just a more direct way of playing politics than hiding shit like the Wall st. In the end, I think it's fun to watch the ugly behavior of human beings because we are all the same.

[Terry2Umich]

Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.

Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this is true and we have all been experiencing the whole shit. And I don't think it would get any better within, at least , three years. The motivation for the Chinese committee to run the competition is quite utilitarian and politics-orientated, so there can be little chances that they will have any reflection of themselves. That's why I left after my whole year working for them in 2010. That's really sad.

But when it comes to the Chinese teams, it is a different story. Actually they have made making great progress during the 3-year development. Proud to say, China is the only country that has a local translation of Matt Brown's Racecar (well that's maybe there're fewer language obstacles in other countries, but) that means the teams are developing so fast and the book can find its readers. Admittedly, everyone is eager for a better platform to demonstate themselves. But it is not only due to the fair or unfair result, it is more related to our passion for engineering and motorsports. That's why we are here.

Regards,

Terry

[jerry_tung]

Just don't go. The committee corrupt way too much. Go there until the ugliness is reduced to the same level of FSUK at least.

[mscwu]

Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.

Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this is true and we have all been experiencing the whole shit. And I don't think it would get any better within, at least , three years. The motivation for the Chinese committee to run the competition is quite utilitarian and politics-orientated, so there can be little chances that they will have any reflection of themselves. That's why I left after my whole year working for them in 2010. That's really sad.

But when it comes to the Chinese teams, it is a different story. Actually they have made making great progress during the 3-year development. Proud to say, China is the only country that has a local translation of Matt Brown's Racecar (well that's maybe there're fewer language obstacles in other countries, but) that means the teams are developing so fast and the book can find its readers. Admittedly, everyone is eager for a better platform to demonstate themselves. But it is not only due to the fair or unfair result, it is more related to our passion for engineering and motorsports. That's why we are here.

Regards,

Terry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this gonna be your first and last post using this ID? Terry? lol

[Terry2Umich]

Originally posted by jerry_tung:
I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.

Well, I'm curious about GFR's story.

[Terry2Umich]

Originally posted by mscwu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fantomas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a fair competition this year,the partition is for teams who can be adapt to changes smoothly,the partition may disappear in the next year.Welcome to FSC.

Do you notice how he says "this year"? Adapt in his sentence reads "copy" in my opinion.

To those of you who do not know the story behind my comment, here it is (from a reliable source):
Last year TU Munich was asked to bring their car to FSC to do demonstration runs at the 2011 chinese competitions. TU Munich did not ask to officially compete, but was asked to hand in the necessary documents like Design Report, Cost Report etc. When they were asked, the official deadlines for these documents had already passed, but the officials of the chinese competition granted new deadlines due to the special situation and the fact that they invited them on short notice.

TU Munich showed up on the event and it turned out that they would be integrated into the event as a normal competitor. They of course started to dominate the event and with every event, static or dynamic, in which they did well, the organisers increased the penalty for the "late" submission of their cost report. In fact it was not late, because they were granted a different deadline, but suddenly the original deadline applied. Another argument was that the car costs more than the maximum 15k$ limit in the chinese competition. So they reduced their cost score after each event by applying penalties. When they reached zero it seems that they figured out that that could not have been enough and so Munich started to score negative points in cost!
Before the start of Endurance they already had -37pts in cost. After the Endurance this has been adjusted to -105pts in cost. During the Endurance they lapped faster than 3-5s per lap than the fastest team. Mysterically the Endurance scoring does not reflect this...
They came second with, in fact, 205pts taken away arbitrary from them to prevent them from winning and still managed to come in second with a gap of 28pts. The third team was 168pts below Munich. Munich scored 762pts. Now add the -105pts plus a mediocre cost score of 50pts ->917pts. 127pts more than the winning team...

They were awarded a trophy for being the best (and only) international team.

I would never honor this competition with my attendance.

Fantomas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this is true and we have all been experiencing the whole shit. And I don't think it would get any better within, at least , three years. The motivation for the Chinese committee to run the competition is quite utilitarian and politics-orientated, so there can be little chances that they will have any reflection of themselves. That's why I left after my whole year working for them in 2010. That's really sad.

But when it comes to the Chinese teams, it is a different story. Actually they have made making great progress during the 3-year development. Proud to say, China is the only country that has a local translation of Matt Brown's Racecar (well that's maybe there're fewer language obstacles in other countries, but) that means the teams are developing so fast and the book can find its readers. Admittedly, everyone is eager for a better platform to demonstate themselves. But it is not only due to the fair or unfair result, it is more related to our passion for engineering and motorsports. That's why we are here.

Regards,

Terry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this gonna be your first and last post using this ID? Terry? lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will see http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif . At least it is not an off-key start.

[jerry_tung]

Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.

Well, I'm curious about GFR's story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you know why TUD didn't go to FSUK 2010? Politics

[Terry2Umich]

Originally posted by jerry_tung:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.

Well, I'm curious about GFR's story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you know why TUD didn't go to FSUK 2010? Politics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are talking about their not winning the competition, then I think you are a little bit too arbitrary cuz the documentary has showed us some accidental factor that deprived their chance to win. If their decision is not related with the score, it's gonna be better if you show the story in your mind to us cuz we are all wondering what you are talking about.
BTW, I don't think what happened in China last year is qualified to be called "politics", it should be "impudence" or "igorance" or something else cuz neglecting the laptime and changing the endurance score is too obvious.


Terry

[#??#]

Do you know that BIT have accepted a racer with proficient driving skill, who is a student of Beijing University of Science and Technology, as a Team Member in FS Japan 2011? which is quite loss-of-face thing for all the FASErs in China.
Really wish that BIT could behave itself well in Formula Student Germany this summer and come back with dignity.

Originally posted by TMichaels:
Beijing Institute of Technology, the winning team of Formula Student China 2011, will participate in this year's Formula Student Germany. I'm quite curious to see them perform, especially since they managed to win Acceleration at FS Japan 2011.

[jerry_tung]

Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terry2Umich:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jerry_tung:
I agree that the organizers from the Chinese competition were playing really dirty on these kids but hey politics is everywhere. Money decides a lot of things even on the world stage. In racing, it's even worse. Do you know why GFR doesn't go to FSUK any more? Same reason. The Japanese competition is also full of shit for foreign teams. Take care in life, this is just a start.

Well, I'm curious about GFR's story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you know why TUD didn't go to FSUK 2010? Politics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are talking about their not winning the competition, then I think you are a little bit too arbitrary cuz the documentary has showed us some accidental factor that deprived their chance to win. If their decision is not related with the score, it's gonna be better if you show the story in your mind to us cuz we are all wondering what you are talking about.
BTW, I don't think what happened in China last year is qualified to be called "politics", it should be "impudence" or "igorance" or something else cuz neglecting the laptime and changing the endurance score is too obvious.


Terry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, TUD did not participate.

[AxelRipper]

I'm not sure if there was anyone else in the past, but Xiamen University of Technology came to FSAE West in 2011. Never ran (the "local Chinese manufactured" notaKTM had, at the very least, a few issues with the fueling system having the wrong hose clamps on it, and I'm sure there were a few other issues that stopped it from getting through tech), but they did quite well in statics (28th design, 6th presentation, 20th cost).

I'm also really hoping that the Chinese teams that are doing this are actually doing it properly and getting the engineering experience necessary to not be, in the future, using as much of the questionable engineering/business practices that Chinese companies have been known for in the past. AKA, hopefully we don't see 50 Munich cars on display with slightly lesser craftsmanship and tuning, submitted with 50 Munich cost, presentation, and design reports.

[Thrainer]

Originally posted by ZAMR:
Now I'd really like to hear this story...

How does a team win design, accel, skidpad, autox, and endurance and still lose the competition?

They brought their 2010 car, which had its first event 14 months before FSC and didn't follow the rules (cost event). In my opinion, it would have been unfair if Munich had won. Think of it more of an international exchange than competing there. Further, I could name at least three European events with awards that were reserved for a certain nationality, so that's not something new.

I would totally consider going there. The location sounds great and Munich wrote positively about the organisation. Maybe Claude can give some insight about the event and "teams from China".

Regards
Thomas

[AwesomeAlvin]

The Chinese are just like you and I (I'm Canadian born Chinese) made of flesh and bone. They are not "bad" people, public media just like to make them look that way. I was not there, but I would imagine that the Munich Car and its results were the center of attention not only to the officials, but also every member of the 50 Chinese teams. Rigging the results midway through competition would be noticeable to everyone who was attending. They may not be able to build as sophisticated or a cars but they are not retarded.

Like what some of you said, the likely cause is nothing more than politics. If I was the official and I had a choice of either
a) Let Munich dominate, media go all crazy of how 50 of China's school could do that bad, pissed off sponsors, loose funding forever, and no future more FSC events
or
b) "Adjust" the results, keep the media attention away from that, and keep sponsors happy for future FSC events

I would most likely choose b and take the abuse from FSAE forums. Cause in the end of the day, Formula is about the students and the learning opportunity.

On paper Munich did not win, but come on ... if you are so upset because you don't get to go on stage with a shiny trophy, you forgot the jist of Formula. And should never attend any Formula event anyways.

Now for all the post calling the event and official "pathetic" well please oh please don't tell anyone you are a highly educated Engineer. And please, don't tell anyone you were once part of FSAE. Cause that makes me look bad.

AA

[Drew Price]

Originally posted by AwesomeAlvin:


On paper Munich did not win, but come on ... if you are so upset because you don't get to go on stage with a shiny trophy, you forgot the jist of Formula. And should never attend any Formula event anyways.

AA



I definitely agree with some of what you said, but I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

If a team goes out of their way to travel to an international competition and follows the letter of every rule that governs the competition, and is denied the result that they earned then there is definitely a reason to protest.

What you're saying goes something like if:

North Korean, Iranian and Syrian athletes beat out athletes from the US, UK, Germany, Russia, etc. a the Olympics next week, but the Olympic governing body overturns the results and awards medals to Germany, US, and France because that's what the world audience, international corporate sponsors, and media organizations expected. To keep the flak down.

Sort of sounds like what happened with the figure skating finals in 2002 with Russia.... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Olympic_Winter_Games_figure_skating_scandal)

I realize the scale of backlash is completely different with FSAE being a competition for students, but the idea is exactly the same. You can't re-write the rules on the fly because the outcome doesn't gel with what the organizers or sponsors want to see.

[AwesomeAlvin]

Originally posted by Drew Price:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AwesomeAlvin:


On paper Munich did not win, but come on ... if you are so upset because you don't get to go on stage with a shiny trophy, you forgot the jist of Formula. And should never attend any Formula event anyways.

AA



I definitely agree with some of what you said, but I wholeheartedly disagree with this.

If a team goes out of their way to travel to an international competition and follows the letter of every rule that governs the competition, and is denied the result that they earned then there is definitely a reason to protest.

What you're saying goes something like if:

North Korean, Iranian and Syrian athletes beat out athletes from the US, UK, Germany, Russia, etc. a the Olympics next week, but the Olympic governing body overturns the results and awards medals to Germany, US, and France because that's what the world audience, international corporate sponsors, and media organizations expected. To keep the flak down.

Sort of sounds like what happened with the figure skating finals in 2002 with Russia.... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Olympic_Winter_Games_figure_skating_scandal)

I realize the scale of backlash is completely different with FSAE being a competition for students, but the idea is exactly the same. You can't re-write the rules on the fly because the outcome doesn't gel with what the organizers or sponsors want to see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand why you are angry. However according to Fantomas's post, Munich originally arrived in China for nothing more than a demonstration run. And if you really want to compare it to figure skating competition I think its more comparable with 2010 Olympic Mens Singles. When Plushenko was clearly the better skating but lost on paper.

and in terms of "You can't re-write the rules on the fly because the outcome doesn't gel with what the organizers or sponsors want to see." If that's what it takes to allow 50 Chinese schools continue learning and building cars ... so be it. Because IMO in the end of the day, unlike the Olympics, F1, and Nascar, FSAE is about the students.

And here is the link for the most recent reply from ChinaFSAE regarding the Munich issue. http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/23520776151 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/23520776151)
"...It’s politic issue and has profound historical and cultural reasons, therefore it’s hard to explain here in detail..."

AA

[Drew Price]

What I took away from it was that it was NOT for the students - it was for Chinese pride, that was what I was trying to say.

[Thrainer]

Originally posted by Drew Price:
... If a team goes out of their way to travel to an international competition and follows the letter of every rule that governs the competition, and is denied the result that they earned then there is definitely a reason to protest. ...

From what I've read on the Tufast and FSG websites, it's not like you describe. The trip was supported by sponsors of FSG (and maybe also FSC) with the idea of international exchange - a Chinese team will attend FSG 2012 - and the Munich team didn't follow all FSC rules.

I understand Alvin's statement like this: FSAE is not about the trophies, but the learning experience. All students taking part in a competition are winners, even if the finish last.

Generally, it's easy to criticize events and officials. But they are volunteers and the teams are free to register for an event or not. So if you don't like how a competition is run, either help them improve, start your own competition or ignore them.

Regards
Thomas

[Fantomas]

If you are invited somewhere as it happened with the Munich team, I would expect to be treated respectfully and as a guest. Not be betrayed.

It was quite obvious that a team like Munich would dominate this event, so why let them compete officially in the first place? Just to be able to manipulate until you get the desired results and then award yourself with a trophy at the award ceremony? Yes, that exactly happened, the organizers gave themselves a trophy for their...ehm...flawless performance. Congrats!

Nobody should spend money on going to an event where the results are written before the first team enters technical inspection...

Fantomas

[Drew Price]

Originally posted by Thrainer:
I understand Alvin's statement like this: FSAE is not about the trophies, but the learning experience.


I agree with this, I think this is the essence of what I loved most about FSAE. That and making cool shit and driving around in it.




Originally posted by Thrainer:
From what I've read on the Tufast and FSG websites, it's not like you describe. The trip was supported by sponsors of FSG (and maybe also FSC) with the idea of international exchange - a Chinese team will attend FSG 2012 - and the Munich team didn't follow all FSC rules.




There seems to be conflicting stories of what actually happened, so at this point it's really impossible to tell what's going on. It's just he-said-she-said.

You could very well be correct.

[#??#]

All you guys please read the Post titled "A Sincere Unofficial Invitation Letter from China" issued by cnFSAE.com on behalf of the FSAE Teams from China. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Address: http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/t...607348/m/23520776151 (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/23520776151)

Sincerely wish it would refresh the image of FSAE CHINA in Your Impression, and welcome to Chnia in October THIS Year! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Beat regards!

[jerry_tung]

Guys, look at politics in the Olympics. It is way dirtier than FSAE cuz it has more money involved.

[#??#]

FSAE China 2013 will be hold in Xiangyang, Wuhan, Hupei Province, China, in October!! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Welcome to communicate with us despite the inconvenience of transportation. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif