'07 GSX-R 600 ECU Question

[Firas Z]

Hello!

I have a quick question about using the '07 Suzuki engine we have with an aftermarket ecu. We have an Omex 600 series ecu, and I'd prefer to use the stock trigger wheel setup. Omex tech support are working on providing us with start up maps for our engine based on these images of the trigger wheel that I sent them:

h t t p://img340.imageshack.us/i/suzukigsxr600cranktrigg.jpg

h t t p://img600.imageshack.us/i/suzukigsxr600cranktrigg.jpg

From what I can gather, this wheel works out to be a 24-2. There is also another issue. From flicking through the service manual for the engine, it appears that the stock ecu uses the cam position sensor to determine #1 TDC rather than the crank sensor. Can I use the crank sensor only with the aftermarket ecu? The only thing that could cause a problem is if the engine has variable valve timing. Again, as far as I can tell, it doesn't.

Am I missing anything here?

[RollingCamel]

Hello Firas,

Good to hear that you started. Did you check my cousin at Texas A&M and their old car?

[Mikey Antonakakis]

It depends on the ECU, but you should be able to use just the crank sensor. The purpose of the cam sensor is sequential ignition/injection, rather than bank ignition/injection. Whether one is "better" than the other for FSAE is an entirely different discussion though. Either one will work though, as the firing order on these engines is 1-2-4-3.

[Kirk Feldkamp]

Originally posted by Firas Z:
...it appears that the stock ecu uses the cam position sensor to determine #1 TDC rather than the crank sensor. ... The only thing that could cause a problem is if the engine has variable valve timing.


In stock form, the injection and ignition are sequential. This is why the cam sensor is there. If you're looking at a sensor on the crank, how would you determine which half of the cycle you are on without it?

Unless you have some cool version of the GSXR that I've never heard of, you do not have variable valve timing. I can't think of a motorcycle that does, but I'm also not an encyclopedia.

-Kirk

[Firas Z]

RollingCamel: Yeah we started, but it's a slow start at best. We had to pay for the engine ourselves, but at least we have it. We have it mounted on a little frame we made out of square tubing. We're going to run it for the first time as soon as we get back after the break. I visited TAMUQ earlier in the year and spoke with the academic supervisor. He was a little pissed off at the lack of work that was completed.

Mikey & Kirk: Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. I have the service manual for the engine and it doesn't mention anything about VVT, I just thought I should cover all the bases.

Now all that's left is for Omex to get back to me. It's been a week and still no start up maps! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[RollingCamel]

Originally posted by Firas Z:
RollingCamel: Yeah we started, but it's a slow start at best. We had to pay for the engine ourselves, but at least we have it. We have it mounted on a little frame we made out of square tubing. We're going to run it for the first time as soon as we get back after the break. I visited TAMUQ earlier in the year and spoke with the academic supervisor. He was a little pissed off at the lack of work that was completed.

We started the same, but you really need to get some serious sponsorship. As for the fuel maps, why don't you try to download stock maps of from power commander or something just for a start.

[Firas Z]

Originally posted by RollingCamel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Firas Z:
RollingCamel: Yeah we started, but it's a slow start at best. We had to pay for the engine ourselves, but at least we have it. We have it mounted on a little frame we made out of square tubing. We're going to run it for the first time as soon as we get back after the break. I visited TAMUQ earlier in the year and spoke with the academic supervisor. He was a little pissed off at the lack of work that was completed.

We started the same, but you really need to get some serious sponsorship. As for the fuel maps, why don't you try to download stock maps of from power commander or something just for a start. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been working on securing at least some sponsorship since September. No luck as of yet. About the maps, I've been reading a couple of books and looking at some stock maps so I have an idea of where to start. The thing is, the Omex ecu we have needs something they call a start up map where they model the trigger wheel for you. This saves the step of replacing it. I sent them the images of the stock wheel and all that is left is for them to get back to me.

[RollingCamel]

I visited TAMUQ earlier in the year and spoke with the academic supervisor
Yeah, they have all the resources but the students are lazy to make use of it. CNC machines, 3D printers, PCB printers and anything they would ever want. He told me that when he joined the university they didn't even bother to remove the flakes (forgot the correct terminology) of the first and only demo they ran on the machine when they got it.


I wasn't an engine guy so I wouldn't be of much help here...

[Firas Z]

Some good news! The engine is finally running in stock form. With a lot of patchwork, the engine finally fired up on our home made engine testbed. I snapped a pic:

h t t p://img18.imageshack.us/img18/821/dsc01126pe.jpg

I have a couple of questions though. Within 30 seconds to a minute of starting, the exhaust headers were glowing red. I slightly freaked and shut it down. There was also some white smoke which seemed like something evaporating off of the headers and it had a burning plastic kinda smell.

My best guess is that we're running very lean for this to happen. It was late and I didn't have time to pull the plugs to check them. There was no airbox, no exhaust past the headers and the pair system hoses were unblocked. Could a combination of these three have caused it to run lean enough for the exhaust to glow like that? If it's worth anything, we were also running on 97 octane gas.

In case it actually is running lean and since we are still on the stock ECU, could I enrich it slightly by giving it higher fuel pressure at the rail? Currently we have it hooked up to a regulator at 43psi as per the service manual. Could we force it to run richer by dialing up the pressure by a few psi to say ~50?

[RollingCamel]

Nice place you have there.

[Firas Z]

Originally posted by RollingCamel:
Nice place you have there.

Thanks. That's the university workshop. It has lots of mills and lathes but is severely lacking in the most basic tools. Even tightening a bolt takes forever because of the lack of sockets and torque wrenches. I'm trying to get the head of department to invest in some proper tools for us to use. We are trying to get by with what we have for now.

[Tom W]

Glowing exhaust headers can be a sign of retarded timing. With the stock ecu this is unlikely but if you have pulled the cams out at some point it might be worth double checking your timing. Increasing the fuel pressure should increase the amount of fuel being injected. But it will also make it harder for the injectors to open and hence increase the variance in the amount of fuel being injected into the cylinders so you are likely to end up with an engine that won't idle as nicely.

[Firas Z]

Originally posted by Tom W:
Glowing exhaust headers can be a sign of retarded timing. With the stock ecu this is unlikely but if you have pulled the cams out at some point it might be worth double checking your timing. Increasing the fuel pressure should increase the amount of fuel being injected. But it will also make it harder for the injectors to open and hence increase the variance in the amount of fuel being injected into the cylinders so you are likely to end up with an engine that won't idle as nicely.

Thanks for the advice. I managed to figure it out. It was a combination of the cold start enrichment and the unblocked PAIR control hose injecting fresh air into the exhaust stream causing all the excess fuel to ignite in the exhaust manifold. All I did was stuff a screw up the PAIR hose and presto! No more glowing headers. It idles and runs beautifully. I'll see if I can upload a video soon.