Plans for new team. [Archive]

RollingCamel

09-07-2010, 08:49 PM

I was thinking about the plan for our next team and would like to have your input about it.

Looking back at our progress last year we had the following difficulties:

1. Faculty Adviser.
No one can work in such project if you can't enjoy it. However, if we changed the adviser we might not be able to use the parts we already have.

2. Place.
Our university lab didn't even have electricity so we couldn't work there; instead we rented a dirty place which was quite small, with just one source of a lousy electric cable and quite bad from safety view point.

3. Tools.
As I thought the welds were bad, even the judges said that it was done by someone welding for the 1st time. We need to manufacture the chassis ourselves. So we really need to focus on getting a TIG welder, tube bender, notcher and other tools so we could produce as much as we could by ourselves. Not a single metal fabricator accepted to do our chassis and they would not tolerate if anyone does a mistake or something. Plus, a dyno would be great.

4. Sponsorship.
We need to get sponsorship early on and fortunately now we could estimate cost more accurately since we now know the process.

5. Management and members.
We had our share of management problems and mistake, and poor members choice. At our level some work was quite spread thin and caused poor results. From the 16 members only 4 were productive, 2 were designing and 2 were good at handwork. The other 12 were just simply leeches.

6. Engine team.
Aside that only one guy was working on the engine with a volunteer, we had a main problem that will face us and the next team(s) if not dealt with it right. Students have no experience working on engines and don't know what should be done for racing. They fear to work on it because they are afraid to break it. FSAE engines do cost considerably because we import it.

Now some thoughts on what the next team should do:

1. I think that they should take their time and start with another project (the engine team members). What I'm thinking of is tuning Fiat twin cam engines since they are dead cheap, has potential and is highly available. They would change it from carb to fuel injection, use dry sump, design intake and exhaust, and play with the header, cams and pistons and etc.
They could depend on Guy Croft's superb book and his advice on his forum. If we want to compete then we need to develop a good engine team.

2. Decrease the team number and put higher standards for the team members. The thing is that they will be a completely new team, but I'm demanding that I interview each one. According to the tasks required I believe that 10 is about it, however there is a problem with who has the authority. Frankly, I'd like to lead them until they could stand on their own. This will be a completely new team and most of them are sophomores at best.

3. Create support groups. Who doesn’t get the chance to join this year could join the “Support Groups”. Assuming, that we have several projects at the same time as Mini Baja and FSAE we could create and develop specialized groups which could support the teams. For example, there could be a fatigue simulation and testing group, manufacturing group, optimization group and etc. After sometime these teams would cross-learn from each other and change specialty.
I think that it would be a good way to ease off the work on the main team and in the same time developing new candidates for recruiting.

4. Somehow figure out how to change the adviser. Hopefully, he gets transferred to Lebanon or something.

5. Of course, the most important thing is to transfer the knowledge and for that we may ready seminars and courses to teach them what they need.

6. Working place is really a problem and I don’t know what would be the solution. I wish that they would finish the damn lab which is under reconstruction for more than 3 years. I think that we should try to convince the dean to provide us with a special place for the team.

That's all for now. Would like to know what you think.

RollingCamel

09-07-2010, 08:49 PM

BMH

09-07-2010, 11:53 PM

Wow...many of the things that you are dealing with, we are dealing with as well.

1.) Adviser: We had many many troubles with our primary adviser over the past few years, some worse than others. Very recently, our adviser resigned from his duties to pursue other interests. Which left us open to having our "secondary" adviser as our primary adviser. Before changing advisers, I would make sure that you have someone to replace your current adviser.

2.) Shop/Lab: Wow, I am sorry to hear that you have an insufficient lab to have as a shop. I would discuss with your university more on trying to have access to a better location to have as a shop because of the safety, or lack thereof.

3.) Fabrication: Get a TIG welder and devote several days where key members learn how to TIG Weld.

4.) We are currently going through the sponsorship-seeking process as well. Talk to recent graduates and see where they work. Are they a company you would like to have sponsor the team? Are there any companies that donate money to your university? If so, look into it and see what you can do. Remember, any amount helps.

5.) Management and members:
I think it is nearly impossible to have a team that is full of members that devote 100% of their effort to FSAE. This is due to many reasons. Perhaps some people aren't into the design but rather fabrication, or maybe they would rather deal with business/marketing related stuff. See what sparks their interest and try and keep them. As most people will say, retention and recruitment is one of the biggest challenges in managing a team.

6.) Engine Team: The engines do cost quite a bit, especially for teams overseas. The idea of "practicing" on a small engine is pretty good, however, I would make sure that the engine you select has many parallels to the actual engine you use in a car. There's no sense in learning everything about an orange when you will be using an apple. If you decide to allow team members to work on the engine, make sure they document everything. One thing our team has struggled with is the lack of documentation. Having documentation of the engine could provide detailed instructions of disassembly, reassembly, thoughts on improvement areas, discussions on the physics of certain components/assemblies, etc.

Point (5): Strongly emphasize documentation on the processes, designs, etc. This will reduce the amount of time having to train future team members or time being needed to research certain (almost basic) topics.

Point (6): Since your lab has been under construction, see if the dean will allow the team to help in getting the shop fixed up and all. This would almost be cheap labor for them, plus the team members will have a since of pride in the shop and want things set up neatly.

vandit

09-08-2010, 03:05 AM

I read your other post in some thread about attitude of your Faculty Advisor. Does your Faculty Advisor has an elder brother who migrated to India sometime in past because he kind of sounds like our College principal. If i remember correctly from FSG 2010, your faculty advisor is short, bald , French beard guy right !.

Your problems are very similar to what i had during my time. Faculty advisor was never a problem because we always kept a faculty advisor for namesake, who didnt know anything about anything and let us had full control over organization and planning. We had bigger problems with whole Mechanical Engg. dpt. and like i mentioned from College Principal.

The only solution we could find at that time was to keep featuring him and Head of Department regularly in Media articles so that they dont interrupt the progress, meanwhile got things sanctioned from Authority which was higher above both of them. YES, the project taught us politics too.

Regarding team selection. Please dont just reject or select people based on their Tech Interview/knowledge. Like BMH mentioned, there are people who are efficient in some fields but not necessarily Tech. For e.g we had 2 people from Architect dpt. who did splendid job on Sponsorhip front. There were couple of guys who were very smooth in talking with people and tackling the bureaucracy of the College and Bank. I would suggest that you dont close the team selections just with interview, always look out for couple of guys who have organized some kind of College Fest and have experience in getting things done with whole system or may be catch hold of a guy who worked in some manufacturing industry as a trainee and then started his studies. He might be able to find you right person for welding for example. If you expect a person who spends his 90% time sitting in front of a Monitor to Flirt with Bank manager or with Customs Officer than you will always have Headaches.

You had a start this year, you participated , you learnt and now you have a plan - Yes, you are on right track.I wish you Good luck and hope to see you in FSG 2011 with atleast a 'painted' chassis. (if not, then be prepared to get your chassis painted with color of my choice). http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers

RollingCamel

09-08-2010, 04:34 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I read your other post in some thread about attitude of your Faculty Advisor. Does your Faculty Advisor has an elder brother who migrated to India sometime in past because he kind of sounds like our College principal. If i remember correctly from FSG 2010, your faculty advisor is short, bald , French beard guy right !. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that was Iran's adviser. He was great supporting his team and what really got them is lack of sponsorship. They were smart joining FS-UK class 3, so they joined the static event and had a look at what is done. If they had enough money to get better components, especially the brakes they could have done much better. Good luck for them next year.

Ours was a short fat blob in a grey suit, while other advisers were staying helping their team he would just come to have a picture or talk to any official so he shows out that he is the adviser. And whenever he knows something I don't, he says "I know, you don't". I would love to respond "So fucking what asshole".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Your problems are very similar to what i had during my time. Faculty advisor was never a problem because we always kept a faculty advisor for namesake, who didnt know anything about anything and let us had full control over organization and planning. We had bigger problems with whole Mechanical Engg. dpt. and like i mentioned from College Principal.

The only solution we could find at that time was to keep featuring him and Head of Department regularly in Media articles so that they dont interrupt the progress, meanwhile got things sanctioned from Authority which was higher above both of them. YES, the project taught us politics too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When we found out how the perverts think we did the same thing, but man what a corrupt system we have. The dean also was an asshole and he refused to sign anything for us at the end. Its not our fault that the governor scheduled a meeting when both our adviser and the dean where in Lebanon. Maybe, I'm not the most diplomatic person in the world but God we did try hard to satisfy them. I had one member dedicated for bureaucracy and was a better diplomat than I am, but him too got frustrated at the end.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Regarding team selection. Please dont just reject or select people based on their Tech Interview/knowledge. Like BMH mentioned, there are people who are efficient in some fields but not necessarily Tech. For e.g we had 2 people from Architect dpt. who did splendid job on Sponsorhip front. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm taking the whole process into mind, I don't expect tech knowledge from Sophomores but I'm looking for qualities, eager to learn and work as a team. For example, I'm looking for a good hand-sketcher for PR and body styling, a camera man too and etc. Anyone not willing to work "smart" and would disrupt the team structure will not be tolerated.

I'm really convinced that the team should be run as a company. A successful company is made by successful members.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You had a start this year, you participated , you learnt and now you have a plan - Yes, you are on right track.I wish you Good luck and hope to see you in FSG 2011 with atleast a 'painted' chassis. (if not, then be prepared to get your chassis painted with color of my choice) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh dear, don't make me remember. I was in a terrible state the 1st 2 days. I told the damn adviser that it is not ready or worthy of the competition, but no his image depends on it. Even his wife was a show lover too and i clashed with her at the competition. They could not understand that the car had critical problems so working on the car was a waste of time. I'm very thankful for Hamburg team for helping us, we had some problems so we had to remove the steering column support. The car basically couldn't move and was heavy, not to mention that the weld shop was busy with competing teams busy trying to fix what broke and both of the was on my head telling me to weld the support so the steering wheel looks good. I told them that it would be a waste of time and its not important as other team's problems. They kept saying that we're lazy bla bla bla and the car should look good when it enters the university. I replied "So it is all about looks. Guess what the car already looks crap so it is not going to help. We shouldn't have come in the 1st place. And what you just care about is the looks. So you want looks!"
I ordered my teammate to get up and get epoxy from Henkel to so they could have it looking good.

When we went for the design event, Pat asked: "So you gave up?". I replied: "No, but we have critical problems with the hub and upright, we need new ones. Figuring that out we decided to spread and look at what other teams do and speak to them so we acquire knowledge as much as we could". He said that this was good thinking in front of the adviser but yet he was not convinced. So when the judging started normally the judges are judging the students. The adviser would interfere and even ask questions so he can himself right. In 2003, some students made a Mini-Baja under his supervision and they used Al 6061-T6 for the chassis. Long time ago he told me to use aluminum, but i told him that it wouldn't be a good idea. The hoops must be steel and we are having problems welding steel only, then it was extremely expensive cuz there is a minimum order of quarter ton and the company can't supply us until 2 months later we contacted them. Lastly, the welds were really bad on the baja car, which didn't work too. So in order to prove me wrong he asked the judge if it is possible to use aluminum, knowing what he is after i said yes it was possible but would be a wrong choice for the following reasons.
Man, he is such a child that he tries to compete with students.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">6.) Engine Team: The engines do cost quite a bit, especially for teams overseas. The idea of "practicing" on a small engine is pretty good, however, I would make sure that the engine you select has many parallels to the actual engine you use in a car. There's no sense in learning everything about an orange when you will be using an apple. If you decide to allow team members to work on the engine, make sure they document everything. One thing our team has struggled with is the lack of documentation. Having documentation of the engine could provide detailed instructions of disassembly, reassembly, thoughts on improvement areas, discussions on the physics of certain components/assemblies, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is not a small engine, the 2000CC is not small and is different. However, the main goal of the idea is to break the students' fear. If he learned from it he will feel confident to work and learn on whatever engine.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Point (5): Strongly emphasize documentation on the processes, designs, etc. This will reduce the amount of time having to train future team members or time being needed to research certain (almost basic) topics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Done already, although i want to ready presentations.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Point (6): Since your lab has been under construction, see if the dean will allow the team to help in getting the shop fixed up and all. This would almost be cheap labor for them, plus the team members will have a since of pride in the shop and want things set up neatly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Talked to him about it before but he just laughed and told us to ask the hydraulic committee to use place in their lab, though he knows that there is no space there. We spoke to him with our advisers at the start and he did nothing.

Btw, I'm really considering that the next team should paint their care with rust...Ze Rust Machine!!

Ivan Maglica

09-08-2010, 05:57 AM

I don't understand this part about your faculty advisor

A5.1 Status
Each team is expected to have a Faculty Advisor appointed by the university. The Faculty Advisor is
expected to accompany the team to the competition and will be considered by competition officials to
be the official university representative.
A5.2 Responsibilities
Faculty Advisors may advise their teams on general engineering and engineering project management
theory.
A5.3 Limitations
Faculty Advisors may not design any part of the vehicle nor directly participate in the development of
any documentation or presentation.
Additionally, Faculty Advisors may not fabricate nor assemble any components nor assist in the
preparation, maintenance, testing or operation of the vehicle.
In Brief – Faculty Advisors may not design, build or repair any part of the car.

FSG Rules
2.6 Faculty Advisor
FSG strongly recommends that all participating teams have a Faculty Advisor present with
them at all times, during the competition. In the case of having no Faculty Advisor present
during competition, the Team Captain will take over all responsibilities as the acting Faculty
Advisor.

We have faculty advisor because in rule A5.1 is stated that we need one so we took him in Silverstone and thats it. We would probably took him on FSG with us but he went on vacation so he couldn't come.

In Riteh Racing faculty advisor doesn't have anything with design of a car, team organization or something else.

RollingCamel

09-08-2010, 06:53 AM

We too don't want the advisers to do anything, but he doesn't like so. Moreover, he could want to interfere and take decisions against the team's interest.

At the beginning we had a terrific adviser who understands that students should be responsible about what they see fit for their team.

RollingCamel

09-13-2010, 05:03 AM

Okay, back on subject.

For the tools there are some options:

Welder:
Mactech Expo is at November and they really have to take advantage of it. All machining tools companies will be present.

The welders I was looking at were Miller Dynasty 250, EWM Tetrix 230 and Powertig 250EX. While the Powertig is cheaper but I don't think that I'll find it in Egypt.

Bender and Notcher:

Looked at JD2 and Baileigh offerings. The JD2 model3 is much cheaper but I'm thinking of going to the Model32 and Notch Master.

RollingCamel

09-17-2010, 05:15 PM

Things doesn't seem to look good. The new team didn't form themselves now and the candidates for the new team is not convinced that they can't work with under his supervision. Now he wants control on selection of team members and his criteria is their academic score, he only wants the excellent and very good.
I'm still maneuvering to find another adviser but if not then you may kiss AUM good buy.

I've met 2 of the new Cairo University team and I wish them luck.

RollingCamel

09-20-2010, 05:53 PM

Ah well, the doctor wants to put an ad in the university to create a new team of students of with high grades to "honorably" represent the university in FSG 2011.

I'm quite pissed because it is not about grades, although I would respect it if there was a set for the minimum GPA so the student doesn't hurt himself, but he is putting it because he thinks that ppl like me having quite low grades are the problem and is putting a fucking high standard for the wrong reasons. Then "honorable"!! He was the one who insisted to ship the car although my objection because it wasn't competition worthy. Yeah it wasn't something to be proud of but with no vision they will run into the same problem.

I have never seen someone like him before and I'm really sad to see our effort go waste. Sucks that I can't move much since I returned had an anal fistula thanks to the long seat time reading and designing for the project and just as I'm completing recovery some stupid fuck dropped a steel tube on my toe now I have to rest more.

Can't believe how I turned into a such whiner.

RollingCamel

11-04-2010, 10:42 AM

Today was the first meeting of the new team and I'm frustrated with the dishonesty and delusion of the faculty adviser and team leader.

They are so late yet they recruited the members with FSG 2011 as their main goal. The faculty adviser told them a happy story of what happened last year and how some heroic worker in the purchase department was helping us. Well yeah, he missed that we were paying him under the table.

They need more time and have to build an infrastructure for the team plus all the members are inexperienced and their knowledge about automotive is quite limited at best. As a team leader the choice for competing in 2011 or 2012 especially when being so late is the responsibility of the whole team. Is sending rubbish to Germany satisfactory or engineering a well thought and working car?

I consider it dishonest and lacking of a team leader in such an important decision.

The managers were so crossed that I talked honestly and frank. I'm not discouraging anyone but the hardships and truth must be known so they can do a better job.

Jay Lawrence

11-04-2010, 09:27 PM

Dude,
GET OUT.
Seriously, go to another uni and forget about AUM. The uni is clearly not interested in supporting you and you obviously have the dedication to do well at this sport so you would be more appreciated in another team i'm sure.
If that is not an option then show this douche bag advisor the rules regarding advisors (as Ivan pointed out), and remind him that it is not his responsibility to be hiring/firing people etc. He sounds like a useless lump of turd. If that is the case, you can prove it by asking to perform his duties as per "A5.2 Responsibilities." From what you've been saying i have little doubt that he will not be able to contribute anything useful on "general engineering" and project management. Ask him if he has ever built a FSAE car. He hasn't, and so he will NOT understand what is involved and is NOT in a position to make the kinds of decisions he is trying to make.

To your initial post:
1. If the parts were purchased by the uni then they are uni property, not his, so he has no say as to whether you can use them or not.
2. That's fucked. Does any team member have a shed you can use?
3. Go to your local hardware and buy a tig welder. Several people at UoW did a short course at Tafe (like uni but more practical and where you get diplomas instead of degrees. Sorry, not sure of the education system over there) and they became quite good welders. You do not need a tube notcher, that's what grinders are for.
4. Yeah... one of the hardest things to achieve. The Iran team that was at FSAE-A last year was entirely self funded and they did a good job considering.
5. Your leeches may have just been typical first years who hang around trying to learn and are too scared to do anything because they don't want to get raped by their superiors (ie. you) if they stuff something up. That was a big concern of mine in first year so i just asked lots of questions and was probably considered a leech.
6. To build a competitive car you do not need to perform a great deal of work on a modern sportsbike engine. Buy engine, modify sump, make new intake and possibly exhaust, done. There's no such thing a "FSAE engine." Do you have dirt bikes over there? (no offence intended, i'm just not familiar with your resources). Nothing wrong with using a cheap dirt bike engine. What engine are you using/planning to use?

Putting high standards on team members before they become team members is stupid. You need all the help you can get from the sounds of it, so don't limit your numbers in any way. Forget about "who has authority" that's meaningless. You are a team, authority comes from group decision based on pro's and con's of a particular situation, with perhaps a moderator/manager to settle indecision. No-one who is interested should not "get the chance to join." Your method seems to be to create a fraternity where only those approved by the chief can join. All that does is create a little group of people who don't get anywhere because they think they're better than everyone else.

From the sounds of it, i would love to talk to your faculty advisor and hopefully talk to some sense into him. He sounds like a useless self absorbed prick. Come to FSAE-A this year and i guarantee i won't be the only one giving him a hard time...

RollingCamel

11-05-2010, 04:30 AM

I'm graduated and until I find a job, which doesn't looks good, I'm helping out other Egyptian teams as far I can.

About your points:

1. It is university property but under it is under his supervision.

2. No, we have to rent some place which is a considerable financial pressure.

3. On the tube notcher, Chinese grinders have replaced quality ones in Egypt. They are crap to the extent of being dangerous to use, it wears out extremely fast unlike the AEGs we were buying, plus it has some metal derby flying from it once it gives up. Plus a tube notcher isn't all that expensive and would produce good results.

4. Yeah they were good, on their brake problem we offered to make a brake system transplant if its going to work with their calipers and rotors.

5. It was a graduation project, and we were all 1st years, so it was critical that all work, plus I had it extremely clear that mistakes are nothing to be ashamed of except mistakes due to extreme negligence or stupidity.

6. We have Chinese crap over here. I understand that we don't need the best gizmos but in Egypt we have nothing decent.

About standard, there was clear signs at the beginning that some the of members are not going to so the job, yet I said that everyone has the chance to prove himself. When is someone so stupid to get anything right from righting a letter to fitting a bearing and only bothered about disturbing every other team mate rather than doing his job, he is not contributing to the team. When, someone responsible for the brake system gets some excel file having most of the basic formulation and inputs some numbers and says job done, and when you ask him about the calipers, hydraulic system, rotor and brake pedal he tells the team it's not his job. When someone has religious problems against some members and someone who doesn't care at all.

A successful company needs successful employees. That's a fact and reality. Especially that in Egypt teamwork isn't understood well. We had members working their butt out and paying from their own money in excess, yet the others doesn't have the decency to show enthusiasm and try helping. Teamwork to them is to let the others do the work and then you brag about your whatever..

Jay Lawrence

11-07-2010, 01:54 PM

Ahhh, i see. Usually FSAE people don't have too much of a problem finding work, but as i said i have no idea how it works where you are.

1. If it's university property maybe try appealing to those above him?

2. That's fucked. If the uni can't provide you with a safe working environment, show them some modern documentation on OHS and see if you can put some safety pressure on them.

3. That's also fucked. I guess you should become friends with Ebay...

5. Fair enough

6. Bugger. Once again though, Ebay is your friend.

As for the rest, it sounds like you have a typical FSAE team, where 20% of the people do 95% of the work. Perhaps you could try a more formulated approach, where you map out the requirements for each system (to use your example, brakes), so that when someon puts their hand up for it they know what's really involved. Religion has no basis in science or common sense and so has no place in engineering. A successful team does not depend on the success of its members but on the success of the team (working together etc). It doesn't matter how smart someone is on their own because that doesn't guarantee the success of the team. As for the doing nothing and then taking credit for the teams success, once again, it sounds like you have a typical FSAE team...

RollingCamel

11-07-2010, 03:06 PM

In Egypt and Middle East most of the jobs for mechanical engineering is maintenance, repair, service, operation and sales. Not surprising that we are not an innovating nation.

When we talk to ppl they are impressed, however the "but" comes in. "We don't design, we only manufacture. We want production engineers." What we end at is becoming technicians rather than engineers or change career by working in IT or something else.

My cousin eventually started a private business and opened a design office. You may check his website w w w. dhegypt.com. However, it wasn't worth it and left Egypt. The same goes with ppl like Wael Rizk, w w w. rizkauto.com

1. May try but will backfire. Especially, that there is no one who looks for students' interests and would rather not make trouble another Dr. for student's sake. We had professors profiteering from students and little was done to stop them.

2. Safe environment? We have a building in the campus built wrong, is inclined has extreme cracks.
Check this facebook group's photos especially the second page. And then talk about safety..

w w w .facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=34688751662&v=photos&so=0

3. Yeah I'm telling them. Even so I want to test the bolts we have here to see what quality it is up to.

5. We bought ours from Ebay.

By successful student I mean someone who is willing to learn and work as a team. As a graduation project we had the disadvantage that your number is limited and you don't have the flexibility to recruit more if you needed nor have the means to pressure since it is all about some marks for them at the end of the year. The new team shouldn't be in such position because it has no senior students and who wants to join is because he wants to.

Jay Lawrence

11-07-2010, 03:22 PM

There's a lot more to engineering than design. My job at the moment is nursing aging power plants that should have been knocked down 15 years ago, so there is very little innovation. It's not fun but it's a place to start. If you limit yourself to design-only jobs then naturally you will find it hard to get anywhere. It's all about management.

1. If there are no students there are no teachers. You are a customer of theirs.
2. I can't look at facebook on a work computer but i'll check it out when i get home.

Now i understand what you mean about it being a graduation project. That's definately the wrong way to go around it, and it sucks that your uni runs that way. All that gives you is a bunch of people going "oh fully sic race car i wanna be a hectic driver..." and those kinds of people are useless.

RollingCamel

11-07-2010, 03:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There's a lot more to engineering than design. My job at the moment is nursing aging power plants that should have been knocked down 15 years ago, so there is very little innovation. It's not fun but it's a place to start. If you limit yourself to design-only jobs then naturally you will find it hard to get anywhere. It's all about management. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its lower than that. Technical education has fallen drastically as well as most education in Egypt so the new technicians are of low quality and they use the also low quality engineers to fill the hole. It is common that you hear from engineers working in industrial places "They sent for foreign experts and they fooled us by sending technicians." It is because at your position in any decent place is done by technicians.

And really WTF I'm going to do with $250/month which is considered a good pay?

1. It is a public university and politically driven to pump out students way more than it can handle. And students are sometimes told be some Drs. that you should just be grateful that you are taking a certificate nearly for free. Some also treat students as insignificant and dumb and there who are really good, but they are few.

RollingCamel

11-10-2010, 06:55 AM

For clarification, the university doesn't mind that we work in the lab, however the lab is being under repair for several years and God knows when they will finish. There is no electricity and at anytime they can tell you to move out.

One thing I noticed about the new team especially with the management. The leader is in 3rd year and will be a Senior next year meaning that he will need to do another project for graduation. They want to go for the competition this year for no reason but their own sake.

colinE30

11-10-2010, 10:57 AM

You complain alot.

Obviously you have problems, but we all do. You need to work through them.

As far as this "getting a chance to join" thing that you stated is concerned. I think that is extremely dumb. You said it yourself you have 4 people. FOUR! you need more. Do not turn people away!! You need as many as you can get. People will usually find something they are good at/like to do. You WILL need to do a bit of hand holding, but remember they (and you) are there to learn!

RollingCamel

11-10-2010, 06:03 PM

I wouldn't deny that I complain a lot. It just breaks my heart to see all the efforts go for nothing, and I can't work through them because I'm graduated.

Then you have a new team that is not willing to think logically about their goals and use the fact that they are non-senior students to tackle the problems they have and take advantage of the time available because they need it. They need to build the team...Last thing they need is selfish ppl ruining it for themselves and will definitely not achieve such an unrealistic goal. The so-called project manager yesterday was day dreaming and told me that they can do it in 3 months. They are all 1st timers and most of them don't know 3D modeling and all of them has no idea about automotive engineering and some basic mechanical engineering fundamentals.

We had 16 members not 4, read properly before posting please. There is nothing dumb about choosing you team members especially when you have ppl who are not willing to read (Yes, you have students graduating who never opened any references), give you headache for using simple apps, doesn't know how to write formal, not willing to learn or teach themselves, or somehow thinks that the car will build itself without working.

colinE30

11-11-2010, 07:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">From the 16 members only 4 were productive </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is where I got the 4 from.

If any one of these people notched one tube, put one bolt in, or picked up material once its something you don't have to do. You should never turn people away. Get out of the mindset that you are better than everyone and you can decide whether or not they can have an awesome experience in FSAE.

RollingCamel

11-11-2010, 10:58 AM

That is true but we had volunteers doing a better job than the members. Plus some have very low standard of work that even the simplest tasks are done really bad.

Your point is valid but being in a different situation, as a graduation project, all the members were supposed to work evenly and equally.

Then the workload define the tasks and sometimes you need to take decisions. If a person going to disrupt team harmony or lack any interest and not responding to any input then you have to do something about it. The trust comes eventually and the team needs to build up.

Jay Lawrence

11-11-2010, 02:44 PM

uhhh, everyone involved in FSAE teams is a volunteer...
If the people are not into it then you can't force them. Having 4 out of 16 people is a pretty normal number for FSAE teams, especially smaller ones. For example, last year we had about 20 people at the start of the year, then about 4 or 5 people who actually did work, then about 20 who turned up to comp and got photos of themselves sitting in the car that a very few people drove themselves insane (as in, sleep deprived (multiple 40 hour days), mentally fucked, proper insane) building the thing. And we still came 3rd. Don't expect everyone to have the interests and abilities to do a successful FSAE campaign. The biggest problem seems to be your advisor. Go above him and explain your problems.

RollingCamel

11-11-2010, 03:59 PM

Hehe, if they were members then we would have the cost shared with them too. Last year we defined a volunteer as someone helping the team but doesn't have to pay or take serious responsibilities. They were junior students and they did help considerably.

This year you are correct they are all volunteers and members.

As for the faculty adviser, I don't know why but they are letting him interfere more than acceptable. Last year I had confronted him several times and got it my way. I keep telling them that they should be clear about their rights but I don't know if its age or maturity that they fear him. I can't believe that he discarded the chapter's board and called for re-elections and they agreed.

We tried talking to several superiors but no hope they can manage it, maybe feed his ego a bit using media to shut him up.

Jay Lawrence

11-11-2010, 04:09 PM

What do you mean cost and "have to pay"?
Are you funding it yourselves? If so then the advisor has no ground to stand on. He can pretty much fuck off and you should tell him so. From what you've said, I would love to tell him so. Tell the useless prick that if he wants to have recognition he needs to do things worth recognising.

RollingCamel

11-11-2010, 04:12 PM

We had sponsorships and funded it by ourselves.

Jay Lawrence

11-11-2010, 04:24 PM

then he has no power. He has no financial interest and all the responsibility is the teams. He represents the uni and if the uni is not supporting you with funding etc (or a safe workplace....) then i don't understand why you are having problems with him. He is powerless.

RollingCamel

11-11-2010, 04:37 PM

In order to get sponsorship there must be a faculty adviser through which you can access it. Why not any other adviser? Because no one wants to make a problem with him and the new team captain wants to use the parts from last year junk. Even if we funded it fully by ourselves it would still be considered university property and since he was the faculty adviser no one he only has authority for what happens to this property.

Jay Lawrence

11-11-2010, 04:45 PM

Sorry, but where i come from we stand up for what is right and what makes sense. If you don't have the balls to do the same then i guess you have to put up with the shit you're given.

RollingCamel

11-12-2010, 02:37 AM

Hehe, I was going to write something about growing up some balls but I definitely wanted someone else to say it. One or two members of the team might be reading this thread. But really, they can't take this step before confirming that they have another adviser who is going to accept them. Without any they couldn't finance themselves.

EHog

11-12-2010, 07:02 AM

I always click on this thread and read it whenever there is a new post. Every single time I finish reading the newest post, I ask myself "Dear God why did I waste my time reading this AGAIN!"

RollingCamel

11-12-2010, 02:03 PM

Can't blame you..It's more like a punching bag.

Do you care to hold it for me? (j/k)

EHog

11-13-2010, 10:05 AM

No. I will not hold the punching bag.

In the time you have spent complaining on the forums, you could have had half a car built by now.

RollingCamel

11-13-2010, 11:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EHog:
No. I will not hold the punching bag.

In the time you have spent complaining on the forums, you could have had half a car built by now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure thing, but I can't. Anyway, I'm snapping out of it so don't expect this thread to be lasting long....unless you keep it up http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

11-16-2010, 10:10 PM

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