materials for intake design

[raj_fsae]

hello friends ...we are a first year team from india.....we found lot of costly books for suspension designing ,chassis construction on the net available for download ...they were of great help for teams like us who have limited sponsers .....however we couldnt find a single book on intake and exhaust manifold designing on the net even after hours of googling....our knowledge in this area is only limited to certain SAE articles ,discussion on the sae forum and very very limited online stuff....kindly show us some way out by which we can procure thse books.....i mean if any of u have such book(Race Engine Technology,
Four Stroke Performance Tuning,
Advanced Engine Technology,
Design Techniques for Engine Manifolds and Theory of Engine Manifold Design)can anyone mail its xerox copy to us in india ....we can pay a reasonable amount for that....it sounds absurd....kindly give ur suggestions

raj_fsae
AIOUS

[raj_fsae]

hello friends ...we are a first year team from india.....we found lot of costly books for suspension designing ,chassis construction on the net available for download ...they were of great help for teams like us who have limited sponsers .....however we couldnt find a single book on intake and exhaust manifold designing on the net even after hours of googling....our knowledge in this area is only limited to certain SAE articles ,discussion on the sae forum and very very limited online stuff....kindly show us some way out by which we can procure thse books.....i mean if any of u have such book(Race Engine Technology,
Four Stroke Performance Tuning,
Advanced Engine Technology,
Design Techniques for Engine Manifolds and Theory of Engine Manifold Design)can anyone mail its xerox copy to us in india ....we can pay a reasonable amount for that....it sounds absurd....kindly give ur suggestions

raj_fsae
AIOUS

[Grant Mahler]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raj_fsae:
hello friends ...we are a first year team from india.....we found lot of costly books for suspension designing ,chassis construction on the net available for download ...they were of great help for teams like us who have limited sponsers .....however we couldnt find a single book on intake and exhaust manifold designing on the net even after hours of googling....our knowledge in this area is only limited to certain SAE articles ,discussion on the sae forum and very very limited online stuff....kindly show us some way out by which we can procure thse books.....i mean if any of u have such book(Race Engine Technology,
Four Stroke Performance Tuning,
Advanced Engine Technology,
Design Techniques for Engine Manifolds and Theory of Engine Manifold Design)can anyone mail its xerox copy to us in india ....we can pay a reasonable amount for that....it sounds absurd....kindly give ur suggestions

raj_fsae
AIOUS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Go buy the book. Stop stealing other people's work.

[raj_fsae]

"No. Go buy the book. Stop stealing other people's work."

i never knew procuring books of famous authors is stealing .if u cannot help kindly refuse politely but dont use a derogatory word as "stealing".i am not asking for someone's personal work on the project i am only asking for some exclusive books by some renownwd authors which are not at all available here in india and are too too costly for us to buy them including the customs....

[PSUAlum06]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raj_fsae:
"No. Go buy the book. Stop stealing other people's work."

i never knew procuring books of famous authors is stealing .if u cannot help kindly refuse politely but dont use a derogatory word as "stealing".i am not asking for someone's personal work on the project i am only asking for some exclusive books by some renownwd authors which are not at all available here in india and are too too costly for us to buy them including the customs.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem here is that in this case stealing isn't just a derogatory word, it's what you're trying to do. Stealing intellectual property is still stealing.

If you don't have the funds to purchase these books legally, a better course of action might be to contact the authors or publishers directly to see if they will help you out and offer a reduced cost.

Of course then there's the issue of whether or not you really need some of these specialized books to build a fsae car...

[Composites Guy]

I live in America. I can live quite well on $50 of groceries (home-made food) per week. A typically year of engineering college textbooks for class (if purchased new) can cost around $1000 US dollars. That's 20 weeks worth of food. Books are expensive here too... I try to buy them in used condition... but I don't steal them.

[vreihen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raj_fsae:
....kindly give ur suggestions
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe things work differently here, but our campus library is BEGGING faculty members to submit suggestions for books that they should purchase for student reference. Have your faculty advisor(s) submit requests for all of the books that you need to your library, and let the school pay for them all.....

[Aaron@Kaist]

Dear Indian Teams,

When I first started our FSAE team in South Korea, I was always worried about "procuring" equipment, parts, books, money etc, and assumed that sponsorship and obtaining parts and such would be harder. The simple fact is that it isn't much harder, you just have to find out how to look for the equivalent in your country. If you don't have money to buy the books, go find sponsors, go wash cars, or try asking your professors for sponsorship. Building the car, and finding technical help can be hard if its not in your country, but finding resources isn't hard and I dont think should be used as an excuse. Keep trying and think of all possible solutions for "procuring" resources that will get you the books. BTW I doubt you will pay much taxes for books being shipped, and amazon doesnt charge that much for international shipping, it just takes a damn long time to get to you. lets stop using the international card...

[Grant Mahler]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raj_fsae:
i never knew procuring books of famous authors is stealing .if u cannot help kindly refuse politely but dont use a derogatory word as "stealing".i am not asking for someone's personal work on the project i am only asking for some exclusive books by some renownwd authors which are not at all available here in india and are too too costly for us to buy them including the customs.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you are doing is stealing Intellectual Property. No ifs/ands/or buts. Go elsewhere to get your stolen property.

And I refuse to believe that there is nothing available in your country. Tata is a phenomenally successful company. Go knock on their door.

[Type Q]

I notice this has come up a couple of times.

Laws and social customs around the sharing and copying of books or software vary from country to country. For the benefit Raj and others on non-US teams, the United States has strict laws and cultural traditions about copying and export of books, music, software, technology and other things that fall under the broad label of Intelectual Property. Asking someone to Xerox a copywrited book or share copywrited software is asking members of the board to commit a crime, often a serious crime. It is considered theft within our legal system. This is why you are getting such strong negative reactions. Just as you have to deal import restrictions and high tariffs, we have our own restrictions we must live within. The teams represented on this board have had to put forth a fair amount of effort to procure the books and software they are using.

You may not have been aware of this when you have asked people to share knowledge and resources. Please be mindful of this as you continue to participate here.

Going back to the original subject of the post, When I was running a team, I found that many companies were excited about contributing to an FSAE program. Perhaps you can contact the publishers of the books you are trying to procure to see if they would be interested donating to a team library.

[Nishant Jain]

@Raj: Hey man. We're from Manipal. Also participating for the first time this year.

What we've done is sift through a bunch of titles and choose very specifically the books we needed to buy. A number of them were purchased off Amazon or were sent by relatives/contacts living abroad. We paid for these books out of our pockets. Some of them were worth it, while others just proved hugely disappointing (even a couple of really big names).

I would think it a matter of pride to have my own copy of RCVD by Milliken & Milliken. A xerox just seems a rip off. If you're really shortchanged for cash, look online for resources. But asking like this for favors just sends out really bad vibes about Indian teams, at the very least.

[Nishant Jain]

@Grant: I agree with what you're saying.

But can you explain the point behind Tata being a successful company and us needing books? I don't quite connect it.

[Diablo_niterider]

@ AIOUS or Raj -

I feel you are spoiling Indias name , please think twice before putting a post up anywhere, i feel you should have contacted a few more indian teams before putting it up here as the IIT library definately has the book you are looking for.
and if you are from delhi you can visit IIT delhi for sure and get it or ask the mumbai IIt Team .
which University are you from??

regards

[Diablo_niterider]

@ nishant jain -

u can get money from tata and buy books ,simple logic dude. and tatas R&D have those books in their Library, seen it myself, couldnt get my hands on it though.

[Nishant Jain]

So, in continuing the point of this thread, I'd like to also ask anyone who knows of some really good books which would help in understanding the concepts behind intake manifold design w.r.t race cars.

We've been buying some books from international authors and it hurts when you spend that much money and the book turns out to be practically unhelpful. Some popular books infact have proven to be so.

So, can someone name a couple of good engine manifold design related books?

[J.R.]

Scientific Design of Exhaust & Intake Systems (Engineering and Performance) (Paperback)
by Philip H. Smith (Author), John C. Morrison (Author)

Older material, but a great place to start, skip some chapters that are outdated (measuring pressure)

[Nishant Jain]

Thanks, JR.

[Grant Mahler]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Diablo_niterider:
u can get money from tata and buy books ,simple logic dude. and tatas R&D have those books in their Library, seen it myself, couldnt get my hands on it though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is my point, to a T.

To raj_fsae - Have you read any of the intake/exhaust tuning papers available on this forum? Sam Zimmerman and William Attard have both made the subject matter readily accessible even to simple-minded undergraduates like myself. Attard even had his thesis, and his SAE papers available online (here) recently.

If you need access to publicly (and freely) released papers, contact me (or others) via PM. If you need access to SAE papers which were not released for free, then pay for and download them from the SAE website.

[Nishant Jain]

@grant: wow! thanks for the link to attard. this looks just brilliant.

thanks again!

[raj_fsae]

i guess being new to this forum it was my utter callousness that i put up such a request.i regret for what i wrote as it should n't give a wrong image of any indian fsae team.i agree to everything that has been said above....in fact we have bought our own editions of miliken and miliken ,herb adams and tune to win in the past year......
raj_fsae
aious
http://www.aious.in/