Kawasaki ZX-6R/ZZR600

[random guy]

I've looked around on the internet about these two engines and they appear to be comparable to other popular engines, yet I've never seen a team that has fielded one of them. Is there anything about these engines that makes them undesirable in comparison to, say an R6 or a 600rr?

[random guy]

I've looked around on the internet about these two engines and they appear to be comparable to other popular engines, yet I've never seen a team that has fielded one of them. Is there anything about these engines that makes them undesirable in comparison to, say an R6 or a 600rr?

[Zac]

I think Akron has run that motor for a while now. You might want to try getting in touch with some of their engine guys to see what they think of it.

[BeaverGuy]

Oregon State ran the '00-'02 ZX-6R(same as the '05-'08 ZZR600) from 2000 until 2008. I know that Missouri also ran the engine for a few years as I remember talking to them about it at the '04 competition. I remember looking at competition programs and believe there were a few other teams that used the Kawi as well. I also seem to remember there was atleast one year where the Kawi was about 1/3 of the field. However, in '03 Kawasaki changed the ZX-6R displacement to 636cc and as a result was no longer a legal engine choice. With the 600cc engine no longer being made it probably discouraged teams from picking the engine and likely led other teams to replace it.

While I was At Oregon State there were basically three arguments to replace the engine with a different 600cc 4cylinder. The first being that everyone else is using a Honda. The second being that Honda's are more popular in general so parts must be easier and cheaper to get. And the third being that the F4i, R6, 600RR, etc. are new newer, fuel injected, and make more power so they would be a better choice.

While we never made an engine choice change based on the above reasons. Number 2 and 3 have some reasoning behind them and we did think about them. In general the F4i was more available than the Kawi motor on EBay. However, when talking to parts shops they essentially said that regardless of bike manufacturer parts only come over from Japan once every few months so part availability was about the same.

The truth behind Reason number 3 is actually that the newer engines are in general a worse choice. They have Bore to stroke ratios and head designs that are aimed at higher RPM use than the older ZX-6R. Before I left school I started to compile a list of engines being used in FSAE and their key characteristics in anticipation of creating a quantitative analysis of which engine would be best suited to making power under FSAE rules. While I didn't finish that analysis what I did find is that most of the 600cc engines from 2005 and newer have characteristics less suitable to FSAE than the 600cc engines made in the late 90's and early 2000's. The newer engines are designed for much Higher RPMs than the older engines and as a result their breathing characteristics aren't as suited to the RPM Range that most see in FSAE.

[Demon Of Speed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BeaverGuy:
Oregon State ran the '00-'02 ZX-6R(same as the '05-'08 ZZR600) from 2000 until 2008. I know that Missouri also ran the engine for a few years as I remember talking to them about it at the '04 competition. I remember looking at competition programs and believe there were a few other teams that used the Kawi as well. I also seem to remember there was atleast one year where the Kawi was about 1/3 of the field. However, in '03 Kawasaki changed the ZX-6R displacement to 636cc and as a result was no longer a legal engine choice. With the 600cc engine no longer being made it probably discouraged teams from picking the engine and likely led other teams to replace it.

While I was At Oregon State there were basically three arguments to replace the engine with a different 600cc 4cylinder. The first being that everyone else is using a Honda. The second being that Honda's are more popular in general so parts must be easier and cheaper to get. And the third being that the F4i, R6, 600RR, etc. are new newer, fuel injected, and make more power so they would be a better choice.

While we never made an engine choice change based on the above reasons. Number 2 and 3 have some reasoning behind them and we did think about them. In general the F4i was more available than the Kawi motor on EBay. However, when talking to parts shops they essentially said that regardless of bike manufacturer parts only come over from Japan once every few months so part availability was about the same.

The truth behind Reason number 3 is actually that the newer engines are in general a worse choice. They have Bore to stroke ratios and head designs that are aimed at higher RPM use than the older ZX-6R. Before I left school I started to compile a list of engines being used in FSAE and their key characteristics in anticipation of creating a quantitative analysis of which engine would be best suited to making power under FSAE rules. While I didn't finish that analysis what I did find is that most of the 600cc engines from 2005 and newer have characteristics less suitable to FSAE than the 600cc engines made in the late 90's and early 2000's. The newer engines are designed for much Higher RPMs than the older engines and as a result their breathing characteristics aren't as suited to the RPM Range that most see in FSAE. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you by any chance ever look at any singles or twins? I would be interested to see how your comparisons to them.

[BeaverGuy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Demon Of Speed:
Did you by any chance ever look at any singles or twins? I would be interested to see how your comparisons to them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I included the Singles and Twins in the compilation of data. However, because I didn't finish the analysis I couldn't compare them. Having smaller displacements than the 4cylinder engines, the characteristic benchmarks are different and a quick comparison can't be done. However, from what I recall most of the singles had similar characteristics to each other and the biggest differences were the transmission gear ratios.

[Adambomb]

We ran the '00-'02 ZX-6R up until 2007. Wasn't bad compared to the other offerings as far as I know, with the oil probably 1-1.5 quarts over-full (to prevent starvation...no dry sump), still pulled 70 hp at the Dynojet chassis dyno in MI. Didn't have any internal modifications, and from what I gather those are pretty typical numbers for other brand engines with all stock internals.

The ZZR-600 is a touring bike, not sure if that's the same engine, may possibly be a heavier, lower hp higher torque engine.

Other fun facts about the '00-'02 engine: intake is flanged already, so you don't have to fiddle around making a positive intake retention device like you do with a lot of carbed engines. I believe PE sells a crank sensor for it too, so retrofitting it for EFI isn't bad.

I also agree that there's something to the older engines. The newer engines are made so their "happy zone" is way after the choking point of our restrictors.

[nova_racing]

I'll spare you the history of FSAE at Villanova, but Kawasaki donated a 2003 ZX-6RR motor several years back that we have been working with ever since. Fired it up for the first time 2 years ago lol.

I understand that the -6R engine is 636cc hence too large, but the -6RR is their race version and is 599cc for regulation purposes. It has increased compression and stronger internals, and has been great for us so far. The only downside is that it's quite a rare motor, especially 7 years later.

Last year we were lucky enough to find the same motor for sale on a Kawasaki forum, and picked it up for $500 with ECU and harness as a spare. We haven't done too much in terms of development / modifications aside from the obvious intake & exhaust, as we have been simply trying to make it to competition. We are hoping to do some decent upgrades this year as resources and time allow and the team grows.

After a mild (1-day dyno tune) powercommander fueling-only map adjustment, we put down nearly 65hp and 33 lb-ft on a chassis (ATV) dyno. We're happy with that as a starting point.

I'd have to say the only undesirable thing about the motor is its relative rarity. Then again, I kinda like it that way.

[RANeff]

What years was the -6RR made up until?

[RANeff]

A bit more research shows the ZX-6R was switched to 599cc in 2007 and the -6RR was done away with. They all came with slipper clutches from 2005 on as well.

[MegaDeath]

Zac, you are correct. We have been running the ZX-6R for the past 8 years or so. I'm not an engine guy, so I'm not completely knowledgeable about them versus anything else, however I can share the knowledge that I do have of these motors.

The most difficult thing I have come to realize with them is that there is a lack of aftermarket parts for them because it is a less popular motor.

As far as power goes, I believe that it can be a very powerful motor if properly tuned. We had our 08 car on a chassis dyno and made 76hp at the wheels. Also, with our 09 car, we have unofficial acceleration times in the 3.95 - 4.01 range, and that car weighed 496lbs.

As far as reliability is concerned, I believe that it is a VERY reliable motor, as long as you don't do anything off the wall with your oiling and cooling system. During testing back in 2002, the car actually ran two laps at the Goodyear proving grounds with no oil, and the motor was fine. And that motor eventually went in our 2007 car, ran three full summer in that car, and it was the engine that we had in our car at West this year and took us to 3rd in endurance on a toasted clutch.

However we are switching to an R6 this year for the main reason that there is a much larger market for aftermarket parts for them, and it is believed that the R6 has a better cooling capacity also, but we have yet to prove or disprove that.

[skaether]

We also used the 2001 zx6r from 2004 till 2007 which was converted to fuel injection but then switched to the newer zx600p (from the zx6r 2007) for the 2008 season. We have our own testbench and leave the old cars completely intact after their last competition and unfortunately have quite a wear on these engines too. This is why we are required to buy several engines a year which is quite hard because of the market situation. As far as I know we have bought every single zx600p engine that was sold on ebay germany in the past years. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
In the current car it is implemented with motec ecu, custom drysump system (one pump), custom exaust and intake (nothing really fancy) and dual stage injection. Today the engine develops up to 92HP and 60Nm, we used 3.25l (FS-UK) and 3.61l (FSG) during endurances which were up on top in the timesheets. Acceleration times were also quite good this year.