Baffling/ Custom Oil Pans to Handle Cornering G's

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

We ran a Honda F2 (yes old technology, 1992) at competion and both drivers were reporting 0 oil pressure in hard turns..which is scarry to say the least. It held together through endurance...somehow.

We will be running a Yamaha R6 this year. It is a carburated engine, I belive a 2002 or 03. Has anyone run this engine and if so is the stock oil pickup/pan sufficient for our application or does more work need to be done to it?

We are not about to put a dry sump system on, just want to make sure the engine is getting sufficient oil under cornering and hard acceleraiton/brraking loads.
Thanks

[Welfares]

You will have the same problem with the R6, it has an extremely cavernous clutch housing which your oil will disappear into under hard constant cornering (eg, skidpad).

In our engine we've got a baffle plate up the top (where the sump gasket goes)to stop this, You'll have to have a think about where to put the holes so the oil will run back down but no run away during corners.

Good luck, you've chosen a killer engine.
Ours is a '99, we ran 3.9 in germany,
Helsinki has an '03(turbo) and ran a 3.84.

[Ehsan]

The most important thing to consider when thinking about oil pickups and starvation is the original application for the motor. These all come out of motorcycles. This means they lean to turn. And they lean opposite to the centrifugal force that is pushing the oil away from the pickup. Conveniently, the faster the motorcycle is going, the more it will lean to negotiate the same turn so you constantly balance the forces on the oil.

Unless you build a leaning FSAE car, you don't have the stock countermeasure for fighting oil starvation. This would almost guarantee the need for baffling. Another option is to overfill the oil, but then you have to be careful you don't get too high otherwise you'll increase windage and the crank will be slapping through the oil constantly.

The exception to all this is if you pulled a motor from a quad, such as the Suzuki Quadracer 450 (mmmmm... dry sump, Fuel injection....). These corner fairly flat like an FSAE car so they will have been designed with this constraint in mind.

And like Welfares said, put some thought into the baffle. you can't just slap some metal on top of the pan and call it a day. If you have a motor disassembled, bolting your pan onto a lower crankcase half is a very useful visual tool by which to observe fluid movement around the case/pan.

[Maverik]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but why not consider a dry sump system? Is it just a complexity your team doesn't want to get into, think it is unneeded, weight, or prohibitive cost? Just curious really, we have been evolving our system for three years and since implemented have not lost pressure (save for hose leaks). It'd be nice to have a lighter system, but the knowledge that I can tune the pressure and know it is going to be at that pressure almost regardless of anything else is very comforting during endurance.

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by Maverik:
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but why not consider a dry sump system? Is it just a complexity your team doesn't want to get into, think it is unneeded, weight, or prohibitive cost? Just curious really, we have been evolving our system for three years and since implemented have not lost pressure (save for hose leaks). It'd be nice to have a lighter system, but the knowledge that I can tune the pressure and know it is going to be at that pressure almost regardless of anything else is very comforting during endurance.

All of the above....any pictures of the plates you put in the R6? I fully understand bikes dont see the G forces we see in our cars...and that is why I am bringing up this issue. Any other things to look at with the R6 in general?

[Ben Beacock]

Here is the baffle we used in our 05 car. This GSXR600 pan has about 4in cut off the bottom. The idea was to keep the oil over on the side where the pressure relief valve is and place the pickup over there as well. It definitely helped having a case apart to make it. Have to also remember that we run a longitudinal engine configuration.

http://www.vwot.org/community/modules/Gallery/albums/albuo79/PICT2457.sized.jpg

[absolutepressure]

Don't worry about it Duwe, I got it covered. This a fairly easy problem to fix, and we can think for ourselves down here in Platteville. I don't think we need to consult the masses on ways to stop oil from moving from one side of the engine to the next.

[Bill Kunst]

Good for you, Denny.
Just keep in mind the case splitting deal. You can tip the engine for an approx. of the cornering forces and check out area for baffling/change in pan design. There need not be a running engine. Good luck this year,
Bill

[drivetrainUW-Platt]

Originally posted by absolutepressure:
Don't worry about it Duwe, I got it covered. This a fairly easy problem to fix, and we can think for ourselves down here in Platteville. I don't think we need to consult the masses on ways to stop oil from moving from one side of the engine to the next.
If it was so easy, why was it never done in the past then?

[Bill Kunst]

Duwe,
I know it wasn't done the first two years due to the lack of man power. You were there for year two, and you know how it is in Platteville. I commend you for your finish last year, and hope that it only gets better.
Bill

[absolutepressure]

It was never done in the past because it was never a problem in the past. This last comp is the only time (to my knowledge) that the engine had oiling problems.

[Bill Kunst]

it was the only time that it competed in enough events to realize it. Sort of funny, if you ask me. Congrats on finding the problem, because that means that you were able to get enough seat time to find it to be an issue.
Bill

[Alan S.]

I know im not our engine guy and probably shouldnt be posting on here, but we gave the engine a oil change and she was a little low on oil also witch im sure did not help the issue.

[mario_rbr]

Originally posted by Ben Beacock:
Here is the baffle we used in our 05 car. This GSXR600 pan has about 4in cut off the bottom. The idea was to keep the oil over on the side where the pressure relief valve is and place the pickup over there as well. It definitely helped having a case apart to make it. Have to also remember that we run a longitudinal engine configuration.

I can see you changed the OEM strainer. The OEM strainer main feature is the divergent tube (variable section), and you built it with a straight tube (non-variable section). How did it work for you? there's gotta be a reason for that strainer configuration in the OEM.
We are working right now in the oil pan height reduction in our Suzuki GSX R600 '05 and making some decisions.

[Parker]

I believe the reason for the OEM cross section is to have much more strainer area than the one that they built. the new unit appears to not have a strainer.