you guys gotta see this load of BS [Archive]

Andrew Del Donno

10-03-2006, 04:59 PM

It happens, someone at our school did an article on the team for the 'second string' newspaper. The reporter interviewed team members for a couple hours, took a lot of notes, and then wrote one of the funniest articles i had ever read. It was unbelieveably stupid, claimed we ran a go-kart engine and had considered "exotic suspension designs like leaf springs and mac pherson struts" more technical errors than you can imagine. English majors, go figure...

Jersey Tom

10-03-2006, 10:19 PM

Wow..

And wasnt there some independent test done showing the comp fuel was e85?

Chace

10-04-2006, 08:13 AM

It was my understanding that race organizors purchased all of the fuel for the competition at Sunoco, even the e85. I highly doubt that Sunoco had pure ethanol coming out of the pump. That will teach Cornell for trying to be environmentally concious. This is racing!

Homemade WRX

10-04-2006, 08:23 AM

I wonder if the purchase was mixed up/misunderstood as E95 on accident. I think sunoco sells E95, if my memory serves me correctly.
??

Tech Guy

10-04-2006, 09:03 AM

The results of the tests on the fuels from the Michigan competition were published in the August CDS Newsletter. It appears that some people don't read these Newsletters, in spite of them being an official means for SAE to communicate with the CDS teams. From what we understnad, fuel from the same batch was used at West. It all came from Sunoco.

Dan G

10-04-2006, 01:52 PM

The results were posted up here...

http://www.sae.org/students/fsae-fuelsamples.xls

Linked to from this page...

http://students.sae.org/competitions/formulaseries/rules/
(at the bottom of the list, just above the quick jack instructions)

The % ethanol content and vapor pressure of the E85 fuel provided by the organizers was within spec. In fact, it was was actually only 80% ethanol.

Charlie

10-04-2006, 05:57 PM

The fact that a university paper would publish something like that doesn't suprise me. The point is to put their students in the most positive light.

Still, it is quite over the top.

It is a shame that one of the team members would provide quotes like that. Can't say our team wouldn't have had someone like that though.

Alexandre D.

10-04-2006, 06:16 PM

It's not like no one ever wrote a load of BS on a FSAE car.

It's just because Cornell gets more attention because... well it's Cornell...

Gotta love those spare hot spark plugs for very cold morning.

Garlic

10-04-2006, 07:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alexandre D.:
It's just because Cornell gets more attention because... well it's Cornell...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, Cornell got more attention because the article was written by... Cornell.

What did you expect Cornell to write an article about RMIT? http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

TGrau

10-04-2006, 08:33 PM

I have to agree with Charlie, it is a shame that team members would make comments like that. The quotes that really seemed absolutley disgusting were the ones made by Cornell's Professor Brad Anton. He starts by saying,
"We decided that we had to be good sports and do the best we could in a bad circumstance", and then goes on to say, "We went out to the Road and Track event and killed everybody."

Hell of a good sport there boys, you have my vote for sportsman of the year. It's a pleasure competing with world class gents like Cornell.

Mike Cook

10-04-2006, 09:10 PM

Cornell is a bunch of racers. And the last thing I think of when I think of racers is modesty.....

Jesus, don't you guys have anything else to do...like maybe build a car...and try to win. Settle this shit on the track. Cornell had serious issues last competition, then rebuilt an engine and dominated. Props to them. For a bunch of engineers, your skin is about as thick as my X's.

Conor

10-04-2006, 10:06 PM

It seems as if Cornell is becoming to college racing what Notre Dame is to college football. Everybody hates them, unless ofcourse they're a fan. In that case, they are the best team ever. I do think it is petty to complain about them on the forum, but honestly, that's the price of success. I just hope somebody puts their car where their mouth is. I hate to play devils advocate on this one, but I am a huge Notre Dame fan, however, you'll never catch me rooting for Cornell http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Garlic

10-04-2006, 10:16 PM

It's important to remember that this article is NOT written by a member of Cornell's team. And the arrogant quotes are also NOT by a member of Cornell's team. Not even by their faculty advisor (though has some connection to the team).

So, there's no reason to be mad at the team. I'm sure they're a bunch of great guys and also some idiots, just like your FSAE team http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif heh

Mike, I don't know about you but I'd MUCH rather be known as a humble engineer that produces good results than a 'racer' who has no need to be modest... I've met many great racecar drivers and racecar engineers who were incredibly modest and great people. And a few jerks that weren't.

That said I agree the article is a crock of shit! That doesn't mean I have thin skin as it doesn't bother me much but I think it's a fact.

Charlie

10-04-2006, 10:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Cook:
Jesus, don't you guys have anything else to do...like maybe build a car...and try to win. Settle this shit on the track. Cornell had serious issues last competition, then rebuilt an engine and dominated. Props to them. For a bunch of engineers, your skin is about as thick as my X's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just want to say thanks Mike, for the ironic post of the year. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Don't you guys have better things to do than post in this nonsense thread?"

(Apparently you do! http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

"You guys have way too thin of a hide to let this bother you so much you post about it!"

(Apparently this bothers your thick? skin enough to post about it!)

For the record I really DONT have anything better to do, heh.

Jersey Tom

10-05-2006, 12:38 AM

Cornell.. racers? No. Engineering students. RuSPORT are racers. This competition is geared for people to learn, and I think to have this community where we can be friendly and share helpful discussions. Not spout off elitist bull.

Have Cornell won a bunch? Yea. But they dropped the ball on a lot of things last year. And I dont care if they wrote that article or not.. I'd be embarassed if I was in their shoes and would come out and say it.

Just be cool. That's why I like UWA and was pulling for them to win in Detroit. Well engineered car and cool team. I'd buy em a drink.

I should buy myself some drinks.. tell ya there arent enough hours in a day...

Mike Cook

10-05-2006, 08:22 AM

Charlie, my car is well under way. Thanks.

I'm not worked up, i'm just constantly reminded how dumb some of the people on the board can be.

a) First off, this article has been around for awhile. It was clearly written by a journalist major, and if cornell's journalist majors are anything like marylands...well, I wouldn't give them much credit. Its not like they posted it on this forum. They pretty much kept it to themselves.

b) Cornell makes grip. Period. Year after year they come with a fast package. When the rest of you grow up and get into the real world, you will realize that there are a lot of assholes out there, but a lot of assholes know there shit. So instead of complaining, you better soak up everything they have to say.
.....or not, and you can have a slow car.

Conor

10-05-2006, 08:39 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jersey Tom:
Cornell.. racers? No. Engineering students. RuSPORT are racers. This competition is geared for people to learn, and I think to have this community where we can be friendly and share helpful discussions. Not spout off elitist bull.

Have Cornell won a bunch? Yea. But they dropped the ball on a lot of things last year. And I dont care if they wrote that article or not.. I'd be embarassed if I was in their shoes and would come out and say it.

Just be cool. That's why I like UWA and was pulling for them to win in Detroit. Well engineered car and cool team. I'd buy em a drink.

I should buy myself some drinks.. tell ya there arent enough hours in a day... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mmmmmmmm.... beeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

drivetrainUW-Platt

10-05-2006, 08:45 AM

odd no one from cornell has chimed in yet...

Jersey Tom

10-05-2006, 09:25 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So instead of complaining, you better soak up everything they have to say.
.....or not, and you can have a slow car. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We'll build a faster car on our own, thanks. Bugs the hell out of me the people who view Cornell as gods and think we should do our car like theirs. Hell no. There is a better/faster chassis out there that we can (and eventually will) make ourselves. Colorado is playing catchup, but we (and anyone else for that matter) have the potential to beat anyone else on the field. That is the spirit I'm trying to instill this year.

Not that Cornell usually has anything to say (other than the one alum round here). Anyone remember when that guy from Honeywell posted asking for input from turbo teams? A discussion was started then some Cornell guy just says "If you want, (guy from HW), we can discuss this privately"

adrial

10-05-2006, 09:32 AM

It should be pretty obvious to anyone that was at the competition that Cornell was trashing to get shit done this year.

They were late for their design que & didn't have any design posters. They took the car offsite to work on it every night until they passed tech. It just didnt look like the usual, calm, we're ready for this Cornell. Looking at their car...they went high risk compared to what they usually do.

So, props to them. That article is a bunch of nonsense; none of the comments in there are from the students.

The car was fast, but we all know it takes more than that.

GSpeedR

10-05-2006, 01:17 PM

http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/87010584631/p/1

I recently saw this link, and before i finished reading the first post, i was in stitches laughing at how much bullshit this thread had in it

VFR750R

10-05-2006, 04:01 PM

Well, I'm not going to defend the article but it doesn't bother me. Interschool papers are more often then not biased towards the positives and exagerate the negatives. No Cornell student wants to here we just plain screwed up.

The last I heard there is a lot of talk about how they are going to remedy the cold starting so we aren't relying on the fuel being perfect, Jupiter being in its fourth quarter, and a blue moon.

And as an alum, I love when Cornell kicks all your asses. I'm not ashamed, it's racing, and winning is better then losing regardless of the circumstances. We never claimed to be gods, we've made mistakes, but we also win championships. You can all banter back and forth about how we do it, how arrogant we are doing it but our quest to beat every one of you in the next competition is absolute.

By the way, since this Cornell alum is on here more then any, I hope the comment about a COrnell alum being secretive isn't about me, because I've spoke my mind on here WAYYY too much, and have been chastixed for it by all of you who more often then not don't care what i have to say. Regardless, I've always given as straight foward an answer to any questions I feel I'm in a position too and I probably will continue to do so.

Sam Zimmerman

10-05-2006, 05:04 PM

Don't get too worked up, VFR. There will be Cornell haters because they are so good. Really, no matter who the defending champs are, Cornell is the team that everybody wants to beat every year.

When I went to my first FSAE competition, I expected the Cornell team to be a bunch of conceded jerks who wouldn't give us the time of day. Instead what I saw was a team that had just wrecked their car a few day earlier. The team struggled all competition, worked their asses off, and ended with a very impressive finish despite having a car that was very sub-par by Cornell's standards. I remember how impressed I was with the way your school's team never gave up. As an added bonus, they allowed my team to crawl all over the car, take pictures, and answered all kinds of questions from a bunch of rookies.

There were a few teams that were arrogant assholes at that competition. I won't name the schools but Cornell certainly wasn't one of them. WWU and Cornell were likely the 2 hardest working teams at that competition. Very different results but equally impressive teams.

VFR750R

10-05-2006, 07:44 PM

Sam, I wonder if I might have met you, I was a senior the year we wrecked the car.

I'm not worked up, I don't care that everyone hates us, I guess it's like the Yankees or Notre Dame or whatever.

What ammuses me is that people love to hate us, and aim to beat us at the competition, but it's somehow bad that we want to beat them.
Are we innocent, no way, we have had a rivarly with UTA(although I'm sure it's mutual). There are many teams we worry about every year and we keep track of their points throughout the comp.

As far the comp goes, we feel that the competition is a great meeting of the minds. I show you ours, if you show us yours kind of thing that is mutual respect between engineers. Regardless who wins the comp, everyone has put forth 110% effort and I carry the opinions of my peers who have been through the same as high as most judges. I don't think anyone will disagree that the comp brings alot of excitement with it just seeing the other cars.

Jersey Tom

10-05-2006, 08:47 PM

Its not that we hate you. Well some do I guess, hence the 'Cornell sucks' chants..

All I'm saying is that article has a real nasty tone to it. I can understand exaggeration of facts.. but jeez.

That said we all intend on beating Cornell.

Sam Zimmerman

10-05-2006, 09:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFR750R:
What ammuses me is that people love to hate us, and aim to beat us at the competition, but it's somehow bad that we want to beat them.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is funny, I never really thought of it that way but it seems to be true.

As for me, I am just disappointed that GM won't be back on the 29 and happy that the number 7 is switching to Ford. (If those 2 rumors are true.) For all you F1 snobs out there, that is NASCAR talk. You know, those boring races with a bunch of hicks designing the racecars and absolutely no engineering involved. http://fsae.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VFR750R

10-06-2006, 04:47 AM

latest is the 29 could still be GM Goodwrench next year, but I have heard those rumors, and nothing's signed yet. The problem is Reese's wants be on a Cup car full time bad.

Alexandre D.

10-06-2006, 06:08 AM

About Cornell being secretive,

I don't know your experiences, but when I look in the archives of our current engine development, I see a lot of question from my alumni to Cornell, and they answered without any problem.

The best way to squeeze information out of someone is to have an intelligent bidirectional talk.

When people at the comp ask me, "hey dude what's your boost?"... I don't feel like answering.

Big Bird

10-06-2006, 06:11 AM

Wow, there seems to be a bit of feeling out there. I don't really understand why a university article, posted on a university website, for the sake of people within that university, needs to be dragged into a public forum and ridiculed. Each uni wants to be proud of the achievements of its own students, and Cornell has a lot to be proud of. I know we have cringed at some of the things written about us by our own uni, but a journalists job is to make a story - and its best just to let them get along with it.

Face it, if our unis didn't want to be proud of us, they wouldn't bother funding us. Remember we are pretty lucky to be doing this, sometimes you have got to cop a bit of the rough with the smooth.

As for the Cornell reputation - I'll put my hand up and say they have been nothing but respectful and humble in our dealings with them. Michael Jones has helped us out a heap with advice over the years, Al George went out of his way to welcome us at Detroit, and when I went over to say hello to the team they dragged me up into the back of their truck to chat and show me all their results spreadsheets and the like. Given the hard time they were having, they could have been excused to be abrupt to me - but they weren't at all. Sure, we were all competing to win, but there was nothing but respect amongst fellow competitors from what I could see.

Personally, I think most of the claims of elitism I've seen on these boards come from those who want to believe there is elitism. I haven't seen it in any of the successful American teams.

Cheers all

LU-Bolton

10-06-2006, 06:50 AM

It was the day of the endurance at the Silverdome in 2004. I was standing in the grandstand area to watch the well prepared teams battle it out. I was also standing among 20 or 30 of the Cornell team as they saw their drivers go out. It was that amazing '04 endurance battle between A&M and Cornell, which Cornell eventually won.
So as I was standing there watching the race, I also noticed the Cornell guys. Every half a second gained, and every time A&M made a mistake the Cornell guys were there cheering on their team in great suspense of the whole moment. Every one of them was on the edge of their seats.
It was ironic because my team had enough trouble just getting a car to drive in the endurance and here's a team that lives by tenths of seconds gained or lost. You know.... a race team. So as I stood there I realized one thing. I wanted to be them. I wanted my group of friends to be the ones cheering on their team for a possible win in the endurance. I wanted my team to be that good.
That is my experience of Cornell. I haven't had the time to sit down and talk to them at competition so I don't know them personally(probably the same case for many of us here). I know that they win often. And I also know that myself and many others out there are doing this so that maybe one day we can cheer on our teams to victory. So do I like Cornell? Not especially, but then again I don't know them. I do respect them though. And I hope that others will realize how much it takes to turn a bunch of college kids into the Championship team that Cornell has become. Cornell has done it, so can we.

Rex

10-06-2006, 07:10 AM

I'm coming in a bit late here, since the thread has now somewhat digressed into a discussion on whether the Cornell team is cool or not (which seems like a very odd topic of discussion if you ask me).

However, this type of situation with appalling articles happens periodically. I remember a couple years back when an article came out (don't recall where) about UTA winning the Japan comp and they sounded like arrogant jackasses - which is certainly not the case as I had met most of the folks on their team that year and they could not have been a nicer bunch of guys. I also remember back in 02 and 03 when my school's student newspaper ran some articles on my team, and I was appalled at some of the things I was quoted as saying (not that they were offensive to other teams, just dumb). So I can understand what Big Bird means when he says he cringed at things written by his own school paper!

I would imagine the same thing happened here - when asked what happened, someone on the Cornell team said something like "We're not sure yet, could have been a problem with the fuel or 100 other things..." and through the magic of second-hand accounts and student journalism that turns into the article which has caused so much commotion.