MIS event question

[Mike Roy]

Hi I am trying to figure out an initial setup for the MIS event. What top speeds are people gearing their cars for? (we don't have any downforce, about 90 hp) Are people running asymmetric setups? At the driver change, will most teams change tires? Assuming 1" ride height, what spring rates are required so that we're not bottoming out over the bumps? thanks see you all in a few days
Mike
Southern Ohio University

[alumasteel]

At the driver change, will most teams change tires?

Do you plan on going through a set of tires after 11 km?


Assuming 1" ride height, what spring rates are required so that we're not bottoming out over the bumps?

Depends on how heavy your car is and how bumpy the track is. I would make spring selection based on roll/pitch stiffness instead.

[Poe]

You can't change tires at the driver change, unless the course has changed from dry to wet. If the courses they set up are anything like the courses in the past, I would steer clear of an asymmetric setup, and figure for a top speed somewhere between 50 and 65 MPH.

[Mustang Mac]

I concur with Poe, not speeds are usually around 60-70mph, unless you are running chewing gum soft tires, Oxford Brookes comes to mind a few years back, your should be able to complete endurance with no tire problems. As for spring rates, that is a question only you can answer. You know your suspesion design, rocker ratios, ect. So do some calculations and some testing to find the right combo.

My two cents.

[Mike Roy]

50MPH??? It is a 2.0 mile course. what are you guys smoking?

as for tires, I thought 30 minutes would be a lot more distance than 11km.

What I was asking for springs, is your limiting factor for ground clearance the bumps or the banking??
thanks much!

[t21jj]

It's not a 2 mile course we're not on the oval. Endurance is a 22km race setup like an autocross course. There is two parts because you have to change drivers half way through the 22km. It's all in the rules book.

5.7.4 Endurance Course Specifications & Speeds
Course speeds can be estimated by the following course specifications. Average
speed should be 48 km/hr (29.8 mph) to 57 km/hr (35.4 mph) with top speeds of
approximately 105 km/hr (65.2 mph).
Straights: No longer than 77.0 m (252.6 feet) with hairpins at both ends (or) no
longer than 61.0 m (200.1 feet) with wide turns on the ends. There will be
passing zones at several locations.
Constant Turns: 30.0 m (98.4 feet) to 54.0 m (177.2 feet) diameter.
Hairpin Turns: Minimum of 9.0 m (29.5 feet) outside diameter (of the turn).
Slaloms: Cones in a straight line with 9.0 m (29.5 feet) to 15.0 m (49.2 feet)
spacing.
Miscellaneous: Chicanes, multiple turns, decreasing radius turns, etc. The
minimum track width will be 4.5 m (14.76 feet).
400 Points

[Steve Yao]

Mike,

The course is setup on a section of the infield road course. As it says in the rules, tops speeds can be expected to be ~65mph. Average speed around 35mph. There is no banking.

Most teams select spring rates for a desired wheel frequency and roll rate.

Any spring rate can be made to work for ground clearance given enough droop travel or spring pre-load.

You are not allowed to make any changes to the car other than those necessary for your driver switch, I believe. So no changing tires.

[flavorPacket]

I've been to MIS. It does not have an infield road course.

[Mike Roy]

We're not using the oval??? that changes everything. I know the endurance event is split up into a couple groups, but won't a small course make for utter caution flag madness?
thanks again.

[Grant Mahler]

Originally posted by Mike Roy:
We're not using the oval??? that changes everything. I know the endurance event is split up into a couple groups, but won't a small course make for utter caution flag madness?
thanks again.

Not trying to be asinine here, but have you read the rules? I feel like the rules do a good job explaining the basic ideas.

No, we are not using the oval as an oval. The oval may (or may not) be used for accel and braking tests. In those cases, we would not be using the heavily banked sections.

The autocross and endurance events are "autocross" type events, favoring cars with agility, acceleration, and good brakes. Think Formula 1, not Nascar.

If it might help, there are plenty of pictures of cars posted in the "What is the status of your vehice" thread. Also, there are videos of these cars at various competitions around the world posted on Google Video and YouTube. This might help sort out some of the confusions you seem to be having.

While no car is perfectly symmetrical, I have never heard of a team running an "asymmetrical" car in the manner which you seem to be implying. You will be required to turn in both directions (left and right).

To answer your specific question - yes there are caution flags. No it is not madness. While there are multiple cars on the track at any given time, it is not "open wheel racing" in the sense that there is a common start. Cars are let off and on the track as the space permits, and as other cars finish or drop out of the endurance. You are competing against the clock, not each other.

I hope this clears up some things. This forum is a phenomenal resource for discussion.

[Superfast Matt McCoy]

I think he's trolling. I think this is a lame attempt at being funny.

[Steve Yao]

Oops. For the infield road course, I was refering FSAE West.

No idea what the MIS setup will be.

[Mustang Mac]

flavorPacket
I've been to MIS. It does not have an infield road course.

I have driven the MIS road course and assure you it exists, but that doesn't mean they are going to use it. It is not is good shape, think back to the silverdome surface and that comes close. They couldn't use it without modification as you come down the front straight, and you drop down turn one onto the infield, that transition would bottom out most, if not all FSAE cars.

It's not caution madness, as the number of cars on track is limited and there is only passing in the passing zone. Please take the time to read the rules as this is all explained quite clearly.