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To clarify, it is our concious decision for the Shootout that we will only allow car that has been through tech at a FSAE event is eligible to run. As a) we don't have enough of an expertise to really scruitinized the car, and b) we don't have the experience to do so. It'd be logically if not legally irresponsible to certify a car deemed as safe to run ourselves. And we also don't actually write the rule for FSAE, so we cannot speak for the rule maker for their wording or intent of those regulation. This rule will most likely stand for all future Shootout as it has been in the past. Though like last year we will have a scruitneer on site from British Empire Motor Club to ensure the car is still safe to take to the track on the day of the event.
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And that is why we did not run at the shootout
Don't buy it, Build it |
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Why don't you attend a local autocross. I'm sure they'd let you run under A mod. Call up some local teams and make a good race of it. Then all this bench racing can be put to rest.
University of Oklahoma alum Sooner Racing team...sae.ou.edu " I see no point in being the richest man in the cemetery." "Bail!! Bail!!" |
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In the summer we did do some autocross racing.
Don't buy it, Build it |
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I hope to see the HS team at the competition in 07. If not to compete against then to at least see the car in person. If any of the HS team members are going to be in at the Detroit competition stop by the ACTUAL KU trailer, I'd love to shoot the shit with you guys. (note for everyone reading these forums KU_Racing is not affiliated with the University of Kansas)
Erich Ohlde Jayhawk Motorsports Systems Engineer All electrical components and wiring harnesses depend on proper circuit functioning, which is the transmission of charged ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. Don't be fooled by scientists and engineers talking about excited electrons and the like. Smoke is the key to all things electrical |
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Most of the team should be there, me and a few others will definately stop by Don't buy it, Build it |
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It's a neat dream: bring the HS FSAE car for static judging and tech inspection. Chances are that it's not going to happen in '07 either. Understand, FSAE is turning away paying, eligible college teams already. If they make an exception for you, where does it stop? As long as the 140 entry field is filled in the current format, then no soup for you.
If you really want to get to comp then view it from the organizers perspective and give them a compelling reason (that aligns with their interests)to let you in. That may be more difficult and time consuming than building the car. Speaking of the car, let's talk, Okay? First a disclamier or two. I am not a motorsports professional. I don't design cars for a living. What I say could easily be flawed. Buyer beware... Now on to some observations: -No plenum on the intake is probably not the best idea. Look at RMIT. 450cc Single. Good sized plenum. There is a reason it's there. Think isolation of the restrictor. Think reversion flow is bad. It's just fluid dynamics, baby! -Front A-arm rod end (on upright) is in bending. Especially bad under braking. Pat Clarke would beat you if you were Aussies. This will work if the rod end is big enough but its not the most efficent structure nor the stiffest. Maybe stiffness is important on members that locate the contact patches. Just a thought. -Load paths are convoluted. How is the car being held up? Recite the spaceframe mantras: "Put the loads into nodes" and "Happy triangles make happy car". -Brakes make heat. Bad things happen when they can't dissipate heat. Things expand when they get hot. Clearences can easily become interferences under stress and heat. Danger, Will Robinson. -So many tubes. So many tubes. Those tubes are required by the rules but can you put them to practical use too? Steel is, like, heavy, dude. All that said, I've seen worse walking around comp. Some 600+ pound cars with yugo build quality come to mind. Keep at it, young Jedi. Out |
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First of all we have talked with organizers, they have to work out some issues with insurance and the facilities for the 07 comp, and if they get that sorted out properly, we will be able to register for the competiton like any other university. Yes there are parts of the car that i'm not to happy with but we're working through it. each car we build gets better, we'll see how it holds up when we get in. Note: I agree with you on the intake, we should have a plenum but our engine guy is to lazy to do anything but tell us he has nothing to do. Don't buy it, Build it |
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Good for you. If you do make it to comp some college teams need a wake up call.
So, a lazy engine guy? One of the worst sort of FSAE vermin in my opinion. Exterminate with extreme predjudice. Do it twice, because slapping the stock carb on the end of a runner/restrictor is not a winning play. One last nugget to share: Engineering is the art of weeding out the bad ideas before the metal is cut. Learn it. Know it. Live it. Out |
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Sean, Gianluca, Brian and crew,
First of all, congrats to you and all your team. I think it is fantastic what you are doing as a high school team, and for those of you moving onto uni you will be miles ahead of your undergrad colleagues. Some of the best FSAE team members I have met have been involved in high school design-and-build projects (mostly human powered vehicles here in Oz), primarily because they understand that completion of a project requires a lot more than processing numbers and making pretty shapes on a computer. Did any of you make it to Detroit? I was hoping to cross paths with some of you. If not, will any of you be coming to the FSAE West event? Sorry, I have no idea of where your school is, so I don't know if that is a ridiculous question. Anyway, if you are ever at a comp where we are competing, please come up and say hello. We'd be more than happy to help you out if we can. Cheers, and keep up the good work, Geoff Pearson RMIT FSAE 03-06 Design it. Build it. Break it. |
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Thank you for the support Big Bird, yes we where at the proving grounds and we where able to take a bit of a look at your car, we share a lot of the same basic design of your car, unfortunately we did not get much time to talk to anyone from your team and we will not be at the west competition.
Don't buy it, Build it |
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Hey Carter guys, i too was hoping to see you at competition and would still like to drop by the shop. Send me an email about when would be the best day and time to stop by. (also clear it with your shop teacher). stefan.nasello@hotmail.com
Also, what schools are this years graduates planning on attending? |
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Very nice set of pictures.
I am planning to build an A Mod car along the same lines as an SAE car, and the students will fabricate and assemble some of it. We don't have any engineering classes (we are a very small and financially poor school), but all students go through a short welding program prior to entering Auto Mechanics. I have a former student who is just graduating from Kettering, and he is going to help get the ball rolling. I can't expect the students to be self-sufficient when there isn't an established program that they can learn from. Sean, good luck with the project. Let me know if we can help in any way, though it seems you are way ahead of us. Michael Perry Dorchester School of Tech Cambridge MD |
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Sean, I think it's kick ass that you guys are building a car. I'd love to see how your car squares off against a lot of the FSAE cars built by colleges and people who suppposedly know more. A good engineering sense will go so much further than some a-hole with an engineering degree and an uppity attitude.
It's incredible to see an FSAE event, with all the cars gleaming, incredible engineering, composites, state of the art engine management...and it doesn't work. Then some guys with no money and huge balls step up and are able to make something happen. Look at Lafayette at SAE West this year. First year FSAE team, small team, rolling up in box truck, just a bunch of cool ass dudes who wanted to make something happen. Their car was damn near 900 lbs...and it finished every event, enduro included. Cornell didn't even finish the enduro this year. Not to take a shot at Cornell or anyone else, but iit just goes to show you. That's something to be proud of for Lafayette. There is so much to be said for just making a simple design the just works. It's like a hot rod 32 Ford mixing it up with an EVO or something. 2 totally different breeds that can both kick some serious ass, and i hope these high school kids get the chance to have at the big boys on the track. I think some of the major automakers can take a lesson from some backyard builders with some common sense. I say best of luck '57 Joe Pres. ('04-'06) UDFSAE |
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Sorry to go off topic, but in regards to building an A-Mod "FSAE" car...
The last time I looked at the SCCA rules for Solo2 I noticed something. A car running in the FSAE class needs to comply with the FSAE rules for the year the car competed. So any number of modifications would render a car ineligble. That led me to the rules for A-Mod. They state that a vehicle must have a wheelbase of at least 72inches to run in A-Mod. All this tells me that owners of FSAE cars that are altered from stock (like myself) are SOL? Please correct me if I am mistaken. On topic content: HS students (and most everybody else too) can learn a heck of a lot about engineering just by machining, fabricating, and then using, adjusting, and fixing a car built from a plan of someone elses design. Aren't most new college FSAE team members in this boat? --Will '01-'04 PSU FSAE |
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Will, how is your FSAE car modified? If this has been mentioned elsewhere, I apologize. Modified in your case may not automatically mean it would not have met the rules for the year it ran.
Jerry Harding University of South Florida - Formula SAE Engine/Drivetrain |
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Will,
I will echo Jerry here. The rules that are most important from FSAE are the restrictor, engine size, and the current aero rules. The intent of the FSAE class at Nationals is to promote more involvement of FSAE students at Nationals. So, modifications made to improve your cars performance are allowed, so long as they don't break the aero, engine, and restrictor limitations. If you have any questions about the intent of that rule, discuss it with Dr. Woods at UT Arlington. He has been the 'consultant' to SCCA about the FSAE class. - Erick FSAE ('99 '00 '01 '02 '03 '04 '05 pit stop '07) FSAE Australasia '00 FSAE Japan '04 |
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Just thought i'd update you guys on whats going on. I am no longer affiliated with CSE, I have graduated and I am now making my way to Mini Baja to see what thats like.
Also after a long struggle to get SAE to agree to let CSE Join the competition, they have given up and are now moving on to different areas. So to all the people who didn't want to see CSE in the competition, your wish has been granted. To all those who wanted to see them make it, well maybe you'll end up with some of the team members working on your cars. Don't buy it, Build it |
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Sean,
I am a high school teacher in St. thomas Ontario. Not far from you and would love to get somthing going for highschools to compete in something more then a go-cart comp. I am also very frustrated with many of the degrading comments. I think it would do them well to look at the situation differntly. The idea of the FSAE race would be far more then just who wins, it is all about giving stundents an inspiration to look deeper into the theory they have been taught. I support your desire to take what you know, what ever that may be, and to try to focus it and put it to the test. I am sure even without going to the comp, you have learned from the experience, and one day will be a Uni stundent at the comp :-). Just as an asside, it looks like most of the negitive comments are coming for Universities that don't want to be that one that is past by the HS, be stuck trying to get their engine to start while the HS car is rolling out to start the race, have oil spew out of the back of their car onto the highschool team that is hot on thier tail or been in the finial photo with 3 tires on thier car and have the HS still have all four. Anyway, I would love to know what your new objectives are |
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I know I am. The most "machining" experiance I had before this year was using my cheapo drill press as a mill (and my hands as the table), and operating a brake lathe. I'm still extremely green on lathes and mills, but I'm learning plenty about different metal's properties and the machines and techniques. I'm not new to cars, but I am new to the ground-up fabrication, even though I'm not in engineering, this program is immersed with information to soak up. Campus policies left students shooting back with camera phones. Life's worth more than pictures. www.ConcealedCampus.com |
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