geoff, the age 'barb' was to you.

the reference to photography was a suggestion that comments about field quality are poorly focussed and not in line with the reason the competition exists, ie mechanical engineering and learning.

To flavourpacket - get a name - and i dont care what WA call their suspension.

Pat Clarke said "Swinburne, some deserved penalties in Design..." -- thats an opinion.


ALSO I am in NO WAY affiliated with Swinburne, and these opinions are my own.

muffed out,

From Saturday.

Just received a text saying RMIT with most points in Enduro/Fuel and UWA ahead in points overall... this is unofficial 2nd hand information though!

Wow, close comp. I couldn't hang around this arvo - keep us posted Mike (anyone?), and good luck to all.

And geez you are an angry man Tim! Wow, everyone cops a barb. I've no problem if you want to insult me, (apparently now my birth date is some kind of crime - my parents are going to be pretty upset about that). But at least have the decency to make it clear who you are insulting. All this crypticism, I can't cope with it all at this advanced age.

In your own words man, peace out

Cheers all,

Wow, what a flame-fest!

UWA's Kinetic system was originally designed for 4wd-ing applications, but was applied to the SAE car by UWA. Making this system work to such an effective degree is a credit to the team. Unless your team can build a faster car than UWA's, you have no grounds to discredit it.

I am really looking forward to next year! It's a shame I couldn't be there. Hope some of you got to meet Edward and Pete from our team at some stage throughout the weekend.

geoff, you are a gentleman and a scholar

So who won? I am anxious to find out...

Tim, wake up and spit out the sour grapes! Geoff, Thanks for the support.

Let me justify my Swinburne comments....
Quote Pat 1..."Swinburne, some deserved penalties in Design, won Presentation".

Okay, after 3 years of telling you, you still couldn't accept Percy...So, 10 points penalty...DESERVED! You did win Presentation didn't you???? In which case, DESERVED.

Let me assure you that the 10 points along with some other stuff you didn't learn from last year kept you out of Design Finals, along with about 4 other teams.

Quote Pat 2......"On the track, having the current Australian Formula Ford Champion in the driver lineup is helping them".
DOH! Is that a criticism??? Surely selection of good drivers is part of good team management. I watched the drivers, he was markedly faster than your other drivers. That was neither a criticism nor sour grapes, just a simple statement of fact.

Quote Tim 1......PC complains about quality of the field, yet goes on to suggest Swinny's car is a re-hash of last year.

When and where did I make that statement? Perhaps you are reading a different forum to me?

Tonight at the presentation, I offered to come to your university and help you with planning and technical advice for next year. Consider that offer comprehensively withdrawn! Just rehash again next time.

Quote Tim 2.....And Pat if you think that having a good driver is why Swinny is doing ok I suggest you really consider taking photos for the rest of the w/e as some might even turn out focussed and worthy of this forum.

Tim, that I did, about 700 of them. Perhaps 20 or so were of Swinburn, but I can't be sure as I just consigned the lot to the trash.

Quote Tim 3......Pat Clarke said "Swinburne, some deserved penalties in Design..." -- thats an opinion.
Pat Clarke was a senior design judge. That was a statement!

Pat

Edit. Tim I thought you were part of the Swinburn team. Your post certainly reads that way!

A reliable source at the closing party tells me that UWA got over the line by 10 points over RMIT for the overall win.

RMIT won both design and Endurance.

All unofficial ofcourse.

Chris,
UWA won narrowly from RMIT. On Sunday morning, UWA held a good lead, but in Design and Enduro (Both won by RMIT)the gap was pulled back to single digit points.
Monash finished third.
Design Finals was RMIT, Tokyo Denki, Wollongong and UWA.
The attrition rate was very high, had there not been two runs at Enduro, I wonder who would have won as the top three along with stalwarts Deakin, Adelaide and others all DNFed at sometime or other.
Not one of the Australian event's great years.

I have a lot of pix. After I cull out the fuzzys, I will post them =] =]

Pat

Pat

I thought I just saw you write, but now edited

"I have a lot of pix. After I cull out the fuzzys, and shit teams ones, I will post them =] =]"

u can say I'm a liar, but I saw what I saw and I was extremely disapointed at how a person like you can even think of such a comment.

And I can't understand y u and geoff enjoy being a keyboard warrior so much on these forums. I don't find any of this constructive,,,its all ppl bitching about other ppl. If you want ppl to accept your constructive criticism, then a forum like this is not ideal, coz ppl can easily misunderstand as oppose to talking to ppl face to face.

Congrats to UWAM from all at CMT.

Next year we should hopefully join you guys once again at the comp with another FSAE-A racecar from out west. And not to mention ANOTHER from ECU.

Fingers crossed we don't disappear into your shadows as seen in the past.

WELL DONE.

Nick Pavy
2007 Engineering Project Manager
Curtin Motorsport Team

What happened to all the grown-ups around here?

This thread is degrading to petty squabble.

Pics would be great thanks Pat! (in a new thread me thinks)

Congrats to UWA! I'll congratulate you all in person next year at our WA SAE team bbq.

quote:

Originally posted by cheester:
Pat

I thought I just saw you write, but now edited

"I have a lot of pix. After I cull out the fuzzys, and shit teams ones, I will post them =] =]"

u can say I'm a liar, but I saw what I saw and I was extremely disapointed at how a person like you can even think of such a comment.

And I can't understand y u and geoff enjoy being a keyboard warrior so much on these forums. I don't find any of this constructive,,,its all ppl bitching about other ppl. If you want ppl to accept your constructive criticism, then a forum like this is not ideal, coz ppl can easily misunderstand as oppose to talking to ppl face to face.

You registered today just to write that?

Pat can be a bit acerbic sometimes, but as Geoff has pointed out he has done an immense amount for the UK comp, the German event, and is of course one of the main reasons the Aus event exists at all. He's refuted the BS leveled at him earlier in the thread so I won't add anything to that debate.

Geoff's one of the smartest guys I've met through this competition and what RMIT have achieved is a direct reflection on his ability. The fact that he's prepared to add his opinions to this board makes it a better place and you should be grateful that people like that are willing to help improve everyone's knowledge. As for suggesting he participates in "ppl bitching about other ppl" it's just not true.

Having done 4 comps myself as a student I know exactly how it feels the day after when it hasn't gone quite as well as you wanted. I'll take that as mitigation for the comments, but otherwise you and Tim are just being rude.

I've also done three comps as a design judge and you'd be surprised by how difficult it is to be comprehensive and fair to everyone. It's not perfect, but I'd love to see you try and do better. BTW the best judging regime I've worked under is Pat's.

Finally the racing - Congrats to UWA, RMIT, and particularly Monash for third

Take some chill pills people it's only racing.

Ben

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ben,

Geez, it seems it ended up a lot closer than expected. Heartiest congrats to UWA - they have been a standard to beat in this comp for many years, and I don't think their number of outright wins has ever truly represented their talent. Enjoy the spoils all.

Any further results that can be passed on? Deakin? TDU? UoW? Monash? Etc etc. There were some teams looking for their best ever finish this year, it would be good to hear the rest of the story.

As for my growing crowd of critics - crikey, it is all getting a bit sensitive, isn't it? But if the comments I've offered above are insulting and "bitching about ppl" (purple? penpals? potplants? pimples?) then you are going to uttely wilt under the pressure of a serious design event interrogation.

If my timing was a bit out, and people are a still bit sensitive in the recent aftermath of the comp, then I apologize for that. But leaving aside my own personal observations, (biases, if you want to see it that way), I am moreso relaying observations from a number of senior design judges, officials, and respected FSAE alumni who came up to speak to me over the weekend. Some (most?) of the observations weren't particularly complimentary. My own university copped a spray as well, from some pretty senior officials - and that team was one of the more successful ones over the weekend.

I hope Eddie Martin (a senior design judge) gets on here at some stage and offers his thoughts. Maybe then you will all realize that it is not just me trying to stir people for the sake of it. There are serious concerns about the priorities of the competing teams, and some of the fundamental lessons that need to be learnt, aren't being learnt.

I've probably upset a few more people now. I'd better go to bed.

Cheers all,

Ben, sincere thanks mate. You posted while I was writing. I hope all is going well with the new duties, keep us posted.

And Monash third! That is terrific! Big ups to Phil, Scott and all the crew.

Cheers all, lets get this thread back to its original intent.

Congratulations Monash on you best finish yet! (Phil, Jarrod would be very jealous you got a podium without him.)

Cant wait to hear the whole story and browse through posted photos (thanks Pat).

Disappointed I could not attend another FSAE-A event.

Well done to everybody else that got their car to the event.

Congratulations to all teams finished the enduro and the winners from UWA.

It is interesting to read the comments and more than that the discussion.

Checking the posted results, i would say the level is stagnated over there. The same teams with the same concepts are on top of the list. Why no other team make it on top? Comparing the Stuttgart and RMIT or TUG and UWA performance in UK and US this year it looks like the european teams making the speed in the moment.

What Pat wants to say, 2 or 3 years before the Aussie Teams had the lead. Only 2 or 3 teams are still on top of the board. He makes it very offensive and direct. If you will be on top, you should listen and try to think about it. Why RMIT and UWA are on top of the board? Because the rest doesn´t work good enough...

I havn´t seen any of the cars beside RMIT, so i can`t make any comments about the design but reading the posts and checking the websites, i would say most of the teams should improve their project management.

The best design is worthless if you can´t make it in time. Most of the teams had some unique design features but when the run out of time it is worthless. And more than that you can see in what design stage the run out of time.

That is what PAT is telling you. He not talking about specific mistakes from specific teams. All he say, that most of the teams having some bad design mistakes. I´m pretty sure that he has a list form each team including Design winners with their good designs and design mistakes.

If you think your design is perfect, free from any mistake why you didn´t win the competition?

You have 2 chances... listen to the people how having a lot of experience and getting better or ignore them and stagnate on a lower level.

Once again congratulation to all of you, how brings a car to the competition and congratulation to the winners.

Hope to see some of you in Germany 2008.

Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Frank "Ruska" Roeske:

this year it looks like the european teams making the speed in the moment.

Frank, I think the results disagree with you on that one. In the US, UWA and Wisconsin wiped the floor with the rest of us, and I personally believe UWA could have gone much faster than they did. In the UK, RMIT and Stuttgart were clearly on another level. And in Germany, Wisconsin again had the fastest car in competition.

The best cars and teams are still spread across 3 continents.

quote:

Originally posted by flavorPacket:


Frank, I think the results disagree with you on that one. In the US, UWA and Wisconsin wiped the floor with the rest of us, and I personally believe UWA could have gone much faster than they did. In the UK, RMIT and Stuttgart were clearly on another level. And in Germany, Wisconsin again had the fastest car in competition.

The best cars and teams are still spread across 3 continents.

Of course, there are a lots of fast cars all over the world. I totally agree, but my comment wasn´t just on the speed of the cars. This depends on the driver as well. But the european teams, the making the speed in the fact of design quality and design features. A full hand of new European teams increases the level of design in Europe.

Maybe my comparison confused. But i just talked about the design and the overall.

So a lot of new teams in Europe having the same enthusiasm and ideas like the OZ ones a couple of years ago. For example Stuttgart was in the 2nd year in UK, TUG in their 4th year in US.

My massage is quite simple: Try to improve your knowledge and listen to the people how shows you your mistakes. That makes you better.