quote:

Originally posted by ben:
On the H&S issue, my experience was similar to that of Chris from UH - more freedom once the trust is built up. And before the protestations start, we also started off with "No you're not using the machine shop" persitance is key.

H&S is a strange one. it very much depends who's in charge. we as a team have free reign when it comes to welding, but arent allowed to touch a lathe/mill or pillar drill apparently due to H&S. I feel its more about technicians being reluctant to let you touch their things!!

regardless, we moan about it, but in the end we have a car to build, and you do the best with the resources you have. we got on great with Cardiff and through chatting to them realised an obvious and major difference in our cars. they can machine/CNC but limited welding. we're the opposite, upto 8weeks to wait for a machined part (CNC only through a sponsor). welding is something we control, hence as much as possible is welded sheetmetal.

It really shows in the finished car, both good cars, just totally different manufacturing processes. It is possible to do well with limited resources, if you make intelligent use of the ones you have and your sponsors, not forgetting hopefully the most plentiful resource, motivated team members!!

H&S seems to be, to a certain extent, dependent on the person applying the rules!!! We (Cardiff) were originally only allowed access to machines etc under 1:1 supervision by a technician (which kind of defeats the point as you then need as many technicians as team members who want to use the workshop). However, after a bit of persuasion, the rules have gradually been relaxed, to the point where I've now got a workshop key and 24hr access.....

Having a team member (me!) with a machining qualification and a fair bit of experience helps, but even then technicians are a strange bunch until they get to know you.

We've also found that a willingness to help keep the shop tidy helps - i.e. I usually make sure people tidy up after themselves, and try and keep the machines oiled/well adjusted. It just kind of puts you in a good light with the technicians if they see you're not out to totally destroy their lovely workshop.

Of course the other argument that swung the workshop access was as follows - we were donated 2 bench-top CNC machines which we got up and running. We linked them into a copy of Mastercam to write the G-Codes. When the technicians started to see the really bling bits of work we were making with these machines, they started to look at us a bit differently, and realised that perhaps we could be trusted with making parts and, you never know, we might actually do a good job!!!

Being useful also helps - we've now got access to a full-scale 3axis CNC machining centre, mainly because we often use our CAM software to write code for jobs other people want to do on the machine, which has opened up it's capabilities a bit but which also means we've got a large stock of favours owed for when we want to use the machine.

I think, technically speaking, the rule that students should be supervised etc is still in place, but not really enforced any more.

Of course, all this can change. We used to have a team member who had been a coded welder in a previous life, so we had no problem getting welding/fabrication done (they were quite happy to let him use the welder etc). He's now left and so our fabrication access is limited again.

Really, we just try and do the best with what we've got access to at the time. For the teams having trouble getting access to manufacturing facilities, keep at it. It helps a lot if you try and meet the technicians half way - they'll more than likely start to relax the rules once they realise you're not an accident waiting to happen....

Cheers

Alastair

quote:

Originally posted by Alastair Clarke:
H&S seems to be, to a certain extent, dependent on the person applying the rules!!!

H&S prevents nothing - it merely requires that you acknowledge the risks involved in what you're about to do. "H&S won't allow it" just means "I won't allow it..."

quote:

For the teams having trouble getting access to manufacturing facilities, keep at it. It helps a lot if you try and meet the technicians half way - they'll more than likely start to relax the rules once they realise you're not an accident waiting to happen....

Couldn't agree more - including the bit I cut out.

There's a flat-out no students in the workshops rule at our place, but demonstrate that you're an asset and not a liability and you're in there. An interest in classic cars, steam-engines and the likes invariably wins brownie points. Don't under-estimate the power of the 10:30am bacon sandwich either!

Creative job descriptions (I'd like to skim smooth the surface of this cylinder head coffee table support so that it has a cat in hell's chance of sealing again the glass doesn't rock on the top any more - raises fewer liability alarm bells with their bosses) and tracking large university projects (I'd like a bag of grade 12.9 M12 bolts for the recovery point on my car job number 1975324 in architecture please) is cheeky but can work if the techies are sympathetic but their employers not.

There is another way - open stores (for small things), open workshops (for non-valuable equipment), 'good trash' (deliberately throwing out what the students/recent grads had asked for and billing it to the current research projects), student workshop with a tech to do nothing but show the students how to machine, an overall atmosphere of trust. Seemed to work fine at MIT, but attitudes towards undergraduate education would kill it here.

Not sure where to put this, gallery or here but as I was editing our season summary I came across a clip from FS where our car hits a cone apparently quite hard.

http://www.formula.stadia.fi/videot/FS_Helsinki_jump.mpg

I'm quite sure you'll need some sort of codec to view that since some of our school's computers play it and some don't.

quote:

Originally posted by murpia:

quote:

Originally posted by ben:
I'm still annoyed that the IMechE always feel the need to modify the rules seemingly just for the sake of having some influence over it.

I think these changes were made at the request of the Chief Judges, rather than the IMechE, since they are the ones who actually have to read all the reports.

From my point of view, standard 12pt fonts and <2500 words made it very easy to read all my groups' reports on a Ryanair plane...

Also one problem fixed this year was the Design Spec Sheets. By using a common layout and standard units I was able to confirm in a few seconds that the teams had actually entered new data in all the fields and not just carried over (or copied) the examples. IMO the supplied sheet should actually be blank, but I guess there are enough old sheets out there by now for a team to copy from that it makes little difference. Surprising how many teams thought a 600cc 4-cylinder would have a 95.0mm bore though...

Regards, Ian

I remember reading this a couple of months back and thinking the 95mm bore sounded familiar. Was just searching on Google for some WR450 info, and was surprised that the first link that popped up was the official proforma FStudent Design Spec Sheet. So I took a look - and there in all its glory is our full spec sheet that we submitted for our FStudent trip in 2004. Word for word. The only difference is that the FS organizers deleted our uni name.

It's all old news now, but if you are after data for an RMIT car it is all there. I'm sure all the Euros were wondering who came up with such ridiculous design data!

Cheers all

can anyone post the FStudent overall linck or somewhere I can see times and results of the 2006 competition? I cant seem to find it in the official web site, thanks a lot!

http://www.imeche.org.uk/formulastudent/pdf/FS2006%20Of...s%20Class1_1_200.pdf