The usual deal - "Let's use this thread for updates at the 2006 Formula Student competition! Good luck to all the teams!"

I'll be there toting an SLR/miniDV - am looking for somewhere to plug in a laptop/external HDD where a team can keep an eye on it and others can dump photographs onto the external HDD if anybody can help? (Can offer photo-hosting for the photos afterwards)

I'm leaving tonight, the team is already in England and the first update is also on the website: www.dutracing.nl
The site will be updated every day...

Good luck to all

Other than the rain this morning the competition is going really well. The weather as teams arrived was terrible!

Highlight of the day was Pat Symmonds from Renualt F1 looking around the paddock talking to people.

The layout of the paddock and general organisation seem much better.

We have managed to get through all 4 parts of Tech so we were well happy.

Good luck to all tomorrow.

What, rain? In England?

Good luck Craig, (hope the hometown fuel works a bit better for you!), and good luck to all teams over the next few days.

Cheers,

Craig

I notice your a bit of a hero over in England.

Do you think you will come to Australia in December to show us your skills and build on your SAE WORLD records...?!

You wouldn't happen to employ any advanced driving techniques as pioneered by one of our team members on Richard Burns Rallying?

Good luck for the UK event!

Delft = 125.5 kg

Steve Daum: "The only car coming even close to that weight would be euh....one of your own"

Saw absolutely nothing today other than the eight cars I judged. The rain on the way in was something to behold, even by UK standards!

Overiding thoughts from today:

1 - Good load paths are free. You'd think they cost big bucks from some of the cars I saw
2 - Pedal box flex is a bad idea. Only two of the eight cars I saw today were adequate in this regard.
3 - Rod ends in reverse cyclic, blah, blah, blah. What exactly does it take?
4 - One team's suspension guys did not know what I meant by "tyre load sensitivity"

We have a serious problem in the UK with engineering education and general standards in this comp.

Mr Dawson et al are some of the exceptions but the generally lower standard compared to the US and Aus comps is getting silly.

Sorry to be so negative but I feel the need to call it how I see it rather than congratulating ourselves...

Good luck to all tomorrow. Graz and Delft looked rude BTW :-)

Ben

Thanks for the update Ben,

I'm amused to hear that you Poms are persisting with that liquid sunshine each summer. I guess there is less chance of sunburn than with our version

I'm sorry to hear that the education system is being called into question again, but it seems every year magazine coverage of FStudent raises this very issue. At risk of creating a monster here, I can't help questioning whether the concentration of high-level motorsport in the UK is actually having a detrimental effect in this particular instance, by biasing perspectives at an academic level towards high-tech detail design rather than concentration on basics.

I remember from a couple of years ago that there was this general feeling around the pits that to be truly competitive you had to have lots of trick stuff and alliances with major motorsport suppliers to get anywhere. You could read this in the demeanour of a lot of the teams. At one end of the scale there were those that were going to blow everyone way (because they had so many hp, or magnesium uprights made at such-and-such a supplier, or electro-hydro-pnuematic gearshift etc etc). Then at the opposite end of the scale quite a number of teams moaning that they could never possibly compete against all those name teams with their big budgets and industry support. I won't tar everyone with the same brush here - but there did seem to be a lot more of that "this is high-level motorsport" mentality than at other events I've been to.

And of course the risk of falling into that trap is that the focus is placed on high science - whereby the fundamentals like brake & electrical routing, ergonomics & pedal tray design, and good load paths are overlooked in the pursuit of trickery.

There is a chance you might all interpret my comments above as an unqualified bagging. I truly hope not, I am only offering my observations on something that I thought was a bit of a cultural difference between events, and I'd love to hear feedback from those "at the coalface" so to speak.

Cheers all, and good luck at the event

As ever Geoff had it pretty spot on. That was the reason for my "good load paths are free" comment. It doesn't matter if you haven't got a lot of trick stuff if pickups miss nodes by 50mm plus.

Classic yesterday was a team that had all four rockers mounted (single-shear) in the centre of unsupported tubes and the shocks then in single shear on bolts sticking out of the same tube nowhere near a node.

NB - we don't feel like we want to ask about fundamental knowledge when it's visibly clear there the basics have been missed.

The biggest problem for me is academics in the UK looking down their noses at the competition as if it's not scientific enough. Student who don't have the backing of a good faculty advisor will struggle. This applies to most of the FS teams in the UK from what I can see.

Once again Oxford Brookes is the exception and they of course have Howard Ash as advisor who knows what it takes to win in this event and also the benefits of participating.

Gotta go.

Ben

just as a visitor I'm really impressed with the layout of the paddock. It's a little crowded but it gives it such a neat atmosphere. i felt like i was walking through a shopping mall.

I also liked the dynamic event announcers. I wish they would interview students after a run in Detroit.

i have a favor to ask. Does anyone staying at the Leicester uni dorms have a couple of empty seats in their car? Nick Roberts and I don't have a ride to the event Saturday. It would be much appreciated if you could help us out. I'll be the tall lanky kid in a red sooner racing jacket begging people for a ride tomorrow at breakfast. thanks.

Kyle Walther
University of Oklahoma

I am following the competition from a distance this year, in contrary to last year when I was at FS.

Could anyone be so kind and give us others an update on today's events, please. The official pages are really in need for some updates.

Which teams made it to design finals, electronics, composite prize etc. What are the results from acceleration and so on ?

Great to see that the competition is getting better for each year. From what I have seen, the Graz car is really impressing. They seem like a big contender for the overall as well as a lot of the other prizes. Can't wait to see that car at FSG2006 in august.

I heard that Graz won the Acc. Event with 3.97 s

Don't know other results (so far)

Hey guys at the competition. Some pics and more results please. I would love to be out there.
Unfortunately after study life cought me....

Cheers Rainer

´00-04 Lions Racing Team member
TU Braunschweig

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bird:
Thanks for the update Ben,

I'm amused to hear that you Poms are persisting with that liquid sunshine each summer. I guess there is less chance of sunburn than with our version

I'm sorry to hear that the education system is being called into question again, but it seems every year magazine coverage of FStudent raises this very issue. At risk of creating a monster here, I can't help questioning whether the concentration of high-level motorsport in the UK is actually having a detrimental effect in this particular instance, by biasing perspectives at an academic level towards high-tech detail design rather than concentration on basics.

I remember from a couple of years ago that there was this general feeling around the pits that to be truly competitive you had to have lots of trick stuff and alliances with major motorsport suppliers to get anywhere. You could read this in the demeanour of a lot of the teams. At one end of the scale there were those that were going to blow everyone way (because they had so many hp, or magnesium uprights made at such-and-such a supplier, or electro-hydro-pnuematic gearshift etc etc). Then at the opposite end of the scale quite a number of teams moaning that they could never possibly compete against all those name teams with their big budgets and industry support. I won't tar everyone with the same brush here - but there did seem to be a lot more of that "this is high-level motorsport" mentality than at other events I've been to.

And of course the risk of falling into that trap is that the focus is placed on high science - whereby the fundamentals like brake & electrical routing, ergonomics & pedal tray design, and good load paths are overlooked in the pursuit of trickery.

There is a chance you might all interpret my comments above as an unqualified bagging. I truly hope not, I am only offering my observations on something that I thought was a bit of a cultural difference between events, and I'd love to hear feedback from those "at the coalface" so to speak.

Cheers all, and good luck at the event

Hey Geoff,

Check your PM mate

Hi All,

Thanks to Ben and Geoff for their comments. Unfortunately I'm missing the Endurance this year so now I'm back home here's my persepctive on what I saw at FStudent 2006...

1) The design processes followed by many teams are still fundamentally flawed. I have never yet judged a team who presented a proper top-down analysis of the competition requirements and a methodology for analysing their design against those requirements, which then led to their final product decisions.

(actually I just remembered that one Class 3 team did do pretty much that last year, with a fully parametrically modelled car they could compete with in 'virtual' events, sorry I don't have my 2005 notes handy to remember which team)

2) Teams still don't distingiush properly between their design concept, and their finished detailed and manufactured car.

3) I'm not so sure there has been a decline in engineering standards among the UK teams. This year I witnessed fewer fundamental errors, but many detailed design / manufacturing mistakes and lots of poor car preparation. I don't think that will ever be taught as part of an engineering course as such, as it wasn't when I studied 15 years ago. That is the beauty of FStudent, it allows the student that hands-on experience they would otherwise never get. You learn by your mistakes...

4) Following on from that comment, it is a sad fact that many UK team members are still denied the opportunity by their educational establishments to manufacture the cars, or at least the major components, themselves.

Finally, I do not personally believe that the European mega-teams with carbon / ti everything, Bluetooth this, CAN that and other trick bits have a higher chance of success because of the trick bits themselves. In fact the opposite may be true because they seem to get carried away by technology for it's own sake and introduce potential unreliability. Where these teams have an advantage is often in the quality of their design process and design analyis. That process quality is what really counts. I hope this encourages those more down-to-earth teams to use their brains, work out what's really important (yet often free, like Ben's load-path comment), how to make the right decisions and put them into practice.

I hope this stimulates some more debate.

Regards,
Ian Murphy
Formula Student 2006 Design Judging Team Leader

hi!

did anyboday hear something from the event?
espascilly results and some infos about sralsund team from germany?

thanks!

All I know is that Queens University Belfast were 2nd in Acceleration and Design Events and were provisionally 4th overall going into the Enduro...just hope they finished the Enduro after the simple electrical failure last year!! Chalmers had a clutch problem in the Endurance event, so I think they are out! The internet connection has now been shut down at Bruntingthorpe, so we probably wont get any updates for a couple of hours until people get back to their hotels etc, or if someone is WAP connected on site!

OK, I have Graz information

Design-Event 1. Platz
Presentation Event 4. Platz
Cost Event 10. Platz
Acceleration Event 1. Platz
Skid-Pad 2. Platz
Autocross/Sprint Event 17. Platz
They also successfully finished the endurance...I worked that out with my broken german! 6 months in Switzerland did pay off then

Eindhoven:
Skid Pad-26th
Acceleration-15th
Sprint-30th
Endurance-Out of Endurance
Design-17th
Cost-47th
Business-4th

Sorry folks, thats all the info I could get from all the websites.

Another update taken from team website:

Rennteam Universität Stuttgart
Costreport: 39:th with 55/100 points.
Acceleration: 28:th with 36,99/75 points, best time 4,77s.
Presentation: 27:th with 53,18/75 points
Sprint: 12:th with 100,82/150 points and time of 31,58s.
Skid-pad: 5:th with 43,05/50 points, time 5,095s and max lateral g's 1,33g
Design: 3:rd with 133/150 points
Endurance: Successfully finished!

Johannneum Racing, Austria
Acceleration: 5:th, best time unknown.
Skid-pad: 1:st, best time unknown.
Sprint: 3:rd, best time unknown.

TU München
Endurance: Out of race

KTH, Sweden
Acceleration: best time 4,41s.

Luleå, Sweden
Acceleration: best time 4,44s.

Final results courtesy of racing.tugraz.at

Overall
1. Toronto
2. TUG Racing Team
3. Oxford Brookes

Formula Student Awards
Class 1 Runner Up - TU Graz

IMechE Awards
Acceleration Winner - TU Graz

IET Prizes and Awards
Best Use of Web Site - TU Graz
Most Innovative Use of Electronic Controls - TU Graz

Shell Awards
Class 1 Design Winner - TU Graz

Pi Group Award
Best Packaged Electronics - TU Graz

Sir Henry Royce Memorial Foundation
Best Quality Engineered Car - TU Graz

Ok, after a drunken conversaion with my old housemate who is also a member of Queens Formula Racing, I gathered that they finished 8th! I am F**king proud of them because the only reason they finished so low last year is because my project failed! JR