It's all good, we'll see you in England. Hopefully we'll have a better run there

Did Road & Track do the Triathlon this year? If so who won?

quote:

Originally posted by JamesWolak:
Did Road & Track do the Triathlon this year? If so who won?

Road and Track didn't run their event this year. They may be running it at West but I don't know.

As for some teams cars looking the same, I feel that the fast teams find designs that get them somewhat close to where they want to be and then spend several years optimizing their designs. Its nearly impossible to completely redesign a car a every year and expect to be fast and reliable out of the box. This doesn't mean that the cars are not changed, it just mean that most of the changes are hard to notice since they don't incorporate a major frame redesign, etc. I know that we changed alot this year, both from a systems engineering approach and in things that were completely new to us. But some people told us that the car looked similar to past cars. I think other top level teams get the same criticism as well, as shown here with UWA. They brought a great car that had obviously been given its paces on the track since it was dialed in and fast. And as long as it was faster than last year, the team accomplished their goal. The goal isn't to design a completely new car every year. The goal is to figure out how you can go faster and score more points and then execute that plan. I think everyone that finished in the top 10 executed their plans pretty well.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:

I'm sure you're right. Out of curiousity, what would you say were your unique design choices this year compared to the ones for the highly successful FSL-005?[/QUOTE]

Eshu,
I didn't catch which team you were from? Were you at the comp?

Do you really want to know, or are you suggesting there arn't any?
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

[/QUOTE]

True enough our car was faster this year than last, but we also did set FTD in last year's endurance so I wouldn't say we were massively faster. ;-)

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:

Eshu,
I didn't catch which team you were from? Were you at the comp?

Do you really want to know, or are you suggesting there arn't any?
Did you make the same request/accusation of all the other teams that were able to produce MASSIVELY faster cars this year compared to last? First to mind - Wisconsin, Cincinnati, Florida, UTA and more. They all looked pretty similar to their earlier cars to me, that speed must have just fallen in their lap same as it did for us!

Pete,

My days on a team are long past. No, I did not make it to comp this year. I am ignorant and I tend to fill the role my name implies.

Sincerely now, I am certain there was a huge effort on your part to make a better, faster car. I am also sincerely curious on what all the changes were from last year(Pictures only show so much).

I'm very interested in the evolution of top teams' cars from year to year. I guess I'm trying to answer two unanswerable questions:

Is it harder to design a great concept/package from scratch or develop a great concept/package and make it better?

Is good development the same as good design and to what extent should development be rewarded in the design tent?

Well, that's really three questions.

Anyway, you've got good reason to be mad; my previous response was a prod. But you've smited me with your righteousness and put me in my place. I now know better than to question the ruling class of FSAE-dom and will just cower behind my anonymity.

Eshu

Eshu,
Sorry for the mad post, its not my usual style. And as you wern't there I can better understand your question. IMO your question was answered on the track. The '06 car is about 2sec/km faster than the '05 car on a track and without sacrificing fuel economy. The only carry overs were some purchased stuff,(drive shafts, honda f4i, calipers, uni joints etc) and our USB's + clevis (inboard sus. brackets), wheel nuts, and track width, weight dist target, tyres. Also some forwards compatabilities, wheels, steering quick release, brake hats, diff. Prob missed a few but you get the idea. '06 is our first car designed for the new goodyear tyres and also had a major change of heart in the powertrain section with good results. Ergo control and comfort is much improved to. Weight down 22lb and wheelbase down 2" power up 35% in US.

Your evolution vs revolution question is interesting.
IMO its hardest to win the thing! You have to decide what is required to get from where you are now to where you want to be with your available reasources. Thats engineering. If you think your last concept is good for the job except for x,y, and z then great. If you can't see how to get to bar with what you've got, then change it. Of course if you underestimate what other teams will bring your going to get beaten, maybe by a fantastic idea you didn't consider.

The way I interperet the rules, the design event is ment to assess the car's design suitability for the event/catagory(does it meet goal), the detail design decisions that lead to the solution(show how it meets goal), and the students knowlage of the engineering involved in them(show you know why it meets goal). IMO they also assess the presentation of the designs/your work and the spead of knowlage through the team members. I don't see a need to present a different concept solution to the problem at each event, only a different car. The relentless competition ensures there will be plenty of detail changes from any team that wants to keep up.

Our failure to make design semi was due to "too much carry over and not enough knowlage on the traveling team". Our track performance answers that IMO but design is before the track events so the judges were not to know at the time, so, WE failed to show them what we had when it counted.(being last to weigh didn't help).
I still beleive the car is better than 14th in design and ABSOLUTLY would not have supported major changes for the sake of change if I had the time over again. Although, if it means a free pass into design semi's, you'd have to consider it......

I'd be interested to here from Wisconsin on this as they presented an 'evolutionary' car and won design ahead of a car that could be clasified as 'revolutionary'. Was there any pressure from the judges that your car should be 'different'? I didn't have a chance to have a close look at your car but it looks from the outside to be a good match for what a lot of the judges expect/interperet as 'an autocross racer', is really fast and does everything well. As such, it must be a good thing, built and run by people that have a clue, and I'm sure your presentation is of high standard as well. So IMO it seams your design win shows the event runs pretty close to the way I have interpereted the rules above and is as it should be. Do you agree?

Also, Texas A+M just won West with a new layout. What was it? 550cc twin Aprilia? How fast are they? or more importantly, how fast will they be next year?.....

Pete.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete Marsh:
power up 35% in US.
Pete.

Pete,

Can you elaborate on this some more please?

I spoke to a few of your members last year at AUS and they said you made 100 hp peak. Where was this % increase for US you mentioned.

Also have you any photos of the intake? (is it still variable?)

Hi Andrew,
The 35% is US comp chasis dyno '06 vs '07. (they provide one and a sheet from it is required for the design event. They don't believe your numbers generally) The gain was much more at the US comp because of problems we had with the fuel and weather differences there in '06 (with the '05 car) that we solved this year (with the car you saw at Aus).

Yes it made good power at home on our dyno and in comparison to other cars on the same dyno at US East, the powertrain guys were pretty happy. 5% down on the best atmo engine there (Virginia Tech 74.5 HP I heard) with VERY flat delevery and the best fuel economy of anyone near us.(I think?? we got 17 points).

The intake is fixed and I don't have any pics of it sorry.
Pete.