Just one quick question when the cost software is released will we need Microsoft Access 2007 (or any other version for that matter) to support it or is it a stand alone?

Adam: I'll get you a response through Kathleen by tomorrow.

George: You will not need to buy any software. A runtime version of MS Access will be available for free on our website for you to install if you don't have Access 2007 installed.

Mr Riley,
If you could answer Adam's question on the forum, it would help us also, and probably many other teams. Our electronic's guy as the same interogation.
Thanks a lot
Benoit Vaillancourt
FSAE ETS 2009

Fair enough. Posted below is the response. This would apply to similar parts and if you get your AIR's in I can analyze them all together to create the parametric cost model for this type of component. Just to clarify I feel dedicated engine controllers are already listed, even student built, so this is something new, what I'm calling a chassis control module which may or may not interface to the engine controller but when removed the engine could still run.


Adam,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I agree with your reasoning and that you have a unique case here and something we want to capture by function, not by individual component costs.

Please send us a detailed list of all inputs/outputs including what they control and if you consider them a signal, control or power, as per the rules. If you could include a picture or diagram also, as well as more detailed description of the other attributes, like the display, we will convert this to a parametrized cost. My initial thought is to call it a "chassis control module" and parametrize it by inputs/outputs, keeping in mind your estimated production cost. Please provide the information quickly and we'll get it built in to the tables for Virginia.

Bill Riley
FSAE Rules Committee

Mr. Riley,

I noticed that the English units round area calculation on the Cross_Sections tab of the provided excel sheet needs to be divided by 4.
new equation:

=IF(Cross_Sections!$B4="Round",PI()*(Cross_Sections!$E4^2-(Cross_Sections!$E4-2*Cross_Sections!$G4)^2)/4,IF(Cross_Sections!$B4="Square",(Cross_Sections!$E4^2-(Cross_Sections!$E4-2*Cross_Sections!$G4)^2),"Shape Not Listed"))

Just thought you might want to know...

Cheers,

Pierre

Hi Mr. Riley,

I noticed that in your tutorial the example process description of an A-Arm does not include steps for seting up a part onto a mill, lathe or jig. However, machining setup and changes are included in the processes cost tables. Can you please clarify what is expected.

Many Thanks,
Luke

Pierre-Olivier,

Thank you for pointing this out to me. I will post a revised spreadsheet to the website today.

I am going to post a couple of questions the Rules Committee received that I thought would be helpful to other teams. I have received permission from the team submitting the question before posting on this forum.

Question:

Mr Riley,
I have started to calculate the material and process for machined parts. I would like to know why we have to have a roughing and a finishing process, when it is the same material removal cost. It makes it very long and very complicated to calculate even simple parts, such as bushings and spherical holders. Why can’t we just cost it using gross weight minus net weight. Also, where are the densities for every material so we can calculate the weight of our billets and parts properly?

Answer:

You don't have to both rough and finish. They are both included because the minimum machining stocks are different. They were included because some processes are "near net shape" which means you can have less machining stock.

Additional comments:

In order to reduce student workload and save the number of process steps in the report, I will add machining operations that combine rough & finish steps with the minimum material removed equal to the rough and finish steps combined.

Question:

Where are the densities for every material so we can calculate the weight of our billets and parts properly.?

Answer:

You provide the densities for your actual material to make the mass of your parts equal the mass of your final parts. We're not going to list standard densities because it gets to complicated for plastics and composites.

Mr Riley,

On the excel template what are the filelink cells for?

The database lets you attach files for the judges to review, like pdf files of drawings, jpg pictures of parts, etc. You can ignore the Excel field or use it as place to store the location of your file on disk for when you use the database.

Announcement: The plumbing portion of the materials table are now available for comment on fsaeonline.com. These are unofficial because I want to make sure that there aren't any errors or typographic mistakes. Please review your plumbing parts and if you end up with a $100 fitting please let me know right away. These will be built into the materials table when they are officially posted. I'd like to do that Sunday or Monday so please send your comments to Kathleen McDonald or post here.

Thanks

Examples

We have been so busy with AIR's that we haven't had a chance to update the examples from the tutorials or create new ones based on the evolution of the tables. I'm asking anyone who is willing to email Kathleen McDonald a part costing along with a drawing or picture that I can review and post to the website as an example after I reviewed it. The downside is your cost information will be public, the upside is you will have a Rules Committee member review your costing ahead of time. I won't necessarily review every one we receive but a few representative ones will be posted to the website with comments.

I haven't forgotten to cover the fixturing time for machining. I am working on a full proper response.

Thanks

Hello Mr Riley, I would like to know if the MS Access application for the BOM is now available for the teams and if it is reliable enough for beign used at its full potentiality.
Furthermore I would like to know if this application could be used also for the European events of the SAE.
Thank you for the attention.

Paolo Bernardotto

Hello Mr Riley,

I have a question concerning the tooling cost for a laminated composite. We make some carbon fiber panels with a balsa core that are flat. We lay up the materials on a piece of window glass to go in the autoclave. I assume that the $10,000 per m^2 for the composite tooling is meant for a contoured tool (such as a machined mold.) Is this also meant to apply to a simple flat surface such as our glass? $10,000 per m^2 seems awfully high for a piece of glass (we pay about $50 for a 30" x 60" piece.) If it does should we cost it as a composite tool?

Paolo: The software isn't available yet but when it is our intention is to make it available for more than just the North America events.

cjanota: In high volume manufacture you might use something more sophisticated, and if not think of it as the number of glass panels you would need to make 1000 units a year of that part. Sorry if this seems unfairly expensive to you but the whole point of standardized costs is to make them standard. In this one instance it might be high but on some others it might be low and if we do our job right it works out over all the parts on all the cars to be right on average and in most cases. Don't forget you divide the cost of the tool by 3000 (PVF=3000), so compared to the cost of the carbon and the labor the tooling contribution should be small.

Note: The PVF for monocoques is not 3000, and this captures the more complicated nature of these tools and the massive amount of time it takes to layup a tub. In future years we may develop the model that generates the PVF factors to account for simple geometries like this, but I think things are complicated enough this year.

Machining model:

Many of you are asking why we broke out rough and finish cuts and the different lathe and mill operations. I though it would be better for the teams and the judges to work with and read the reports. However, I have been convinced that what is easiest for everyone is to have one "machining" operation where you take the net finished volume and you take your starting shape and subtract them. What you are left with is the volume of material removed. This means now one line item in your process list can include all the machining operations. It is less detailed but easier for everyone.

So, I am adding a new process step called "Machining". It doesn't mention lathe or mill and has the same cost of $0.04 / cm^3.

There is nothing wrong with using the older process steps so I'm leaving in them in the tables but putting them in strike-through font so you won't think you have to use them. We'll try this out this year and if it doesn't work we can go back to the old way.

Note to everyone: this does not change the cost of any machined component only makes a new optional way to represent it. If you don't like it use the old way. And don't forget unless you use a basic forming process to create your part the minimum machining stock is 1.5mm.

Mr Riley
In previous versions of the materials table, the Honda ATV diff internals where included. I noticed that on the most recent ones, it is not. Nor is an option for the type of internals it uses. I understand that we have to make the case, but how do we need to price our internals?

Thanks in advance for your help

I want to change the Honda ATV differential over to the type of differential it is (like the other diffs). I have an email to a team about it but haven't heard back yet. Can you post the general type here so I can add it back more generally? I realized after I posted it that it was inconsistent to list the Honda ATV whereas everything else is "Torsen style" or "clutch plate style", etc.

Thanks

Mr. Riley,

I hope my summary of our electronics system sufficiently captured everything needed to develop a cost model. Let me know if you need anything else for it.

I just tried to download the new plumbing table, however the link currently points to tooling table.

Plumbing Table «9» (will be included as part of materials table)

Fortunately, tblPlumbing.xls is right where it should be in the directory structure. I imagine things remain pretty hectic over there, but when you get a chance, can you fix the main link?