New discussion area to discuss rules, cost tables and software for 2010 competitions.

Honestly, I can't figure this program out. I'm trying to use the application and only about 70% of it works. Like people have said before it removes parts and in some cases adds them. Equations don't work or there's no explanation of how to properly enter values. For example, when entering in the engine using "ultra high performance" from the materials table, the cost is $2.50/cc and the Honda CBRs are 599cc yet my cost is still only $2.50. Am I doing something wrong or is this a glitch with the equation? This same thing happens with the "fluid, oil" as well.

This program has a lot of potential especially since all the information is in one place, but I've spent the last 3 hours redoing the stuff I was up until 5:00am last night. I also wish there was a save button so I know where the info is rather than syncing at the end of the night. I don't know enough about Access to understand what is going on, but I'm afraid everything I do for a few hours will disappear because I close the program.

Sorry if this is a repeat from the previous thread, but we went to VIR last year and didn't use the application. I figured we'd give it a shot this year and now I'm not sure. I really like the overall idea of it especially since it generates the excel sheets for you, but the problems may overcome the good of the program. I hate ranting, but I'm beginning to understand everyones frustrations.

David, that's good feedback. We have a list of bugs we're trying to work through fixing. Take the Honda engine, for example. Are you adding it using the "+" key then the drop down, the materials browser or the materials table? Then you change the quantity to 599cc? Does the price work correctly? If not, is there a value for density that if you delete it does it calculate correctly? Thanks, Bill Riley.

Hello!

I don't know why some components are not listed in the table materials this year, but the last were in the table. For example, the Megasquirt ECU was the last year but not this year, why?

Have i to request for new models and components? or use for example the students ECU?

Mr. Riley,

My question is in regard to the distribution of data from a sync to other team members. Let me elaborate:

Two weeks ago I had fields entered in the Assembly section with all the parts listed. This week, I then decided to restructure my Assembly fields to a more logical layout after reading the 2009 Cost Report Thread. But between my initial input (and sync) to my latest change (and sync) my team members had synced to add their own sub-systems. So now when I sync today, my sub-system regains the assemblies from the past that I had previously deleted.

In short, what is the best method of making modifications (including deletions) and having them "stick" to my other team member's computers. One idea I thought of was to clear all local data (including team members) and have myself sync my updated report and then have the rest of my team then sync.

Lastly, I too am receiving the "Fastener ID" prompt when syncing and it appears to function normally if I push cancel, otherwise if I push okay, it stops the sync.

Thanks so much!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Riley:
David, that's good feedback. We have a list of bugs we're trying to work through fixing. Take the Honda engine, for example. Are you adding it using the "+" key then the drop down, the materials browser or the materials table? Then you change the quantity to 599cc? Does the price work correctly? If not, is there a value for density that if you delete it does it calculate correctly? Thanks, Bill Riley.

I believe I did try both with the drop-down and tables and had the same problem both times. I did change the density value, but I'm not sure if I deleted it or just changed the value. I'll check it again next time I work on it and let you know. I'd hate to go back to excel and start over, but I'm mainly worried that when it's crunch time that a lot of things will be missing or wrong because of the glitches or bugs. Will these be fixed before the due date of the report or is this something we'll have to check, recheck then check again before sending in?

New Announcement on Access Application and Michigan and California Requirements Posted

Please note that we have two new announcements, one covering the Michigan and California requirements and one about the MS Access application.

http://www.fsaeonline.com/

In summary we think the best thing to do is to migrate the current Access application to a web based program. This will actually cost the same or less as fixing all the bugs in the current system and mean there will be no software to install, no sync'ing necessary, and should make for all around better experience for you students. The down side is we can't possibly do that in time for the 2010 Michigan and California competitions.

My honest advice is to use Excel or your own system for this year because of all the known bugs with the current application. I hate to see you try to use it and end up the night before having problems. The bug workaround pdf posted to fsaeonline.com has all my learnings on ways to use the existing software, such as not using raw materials (I saw a posting about that earlier).

I will continue to update the Excel Cost tables for 2010 so anyone not using the software will not have to use it for looking up costs.

feuerradder: Megasquirt and Microsquirt are both listed in the materials table. We're migrating some of these items still to the software, however, so they should be in there soon.

T. Mourlam: I know there are problems with sync. We were going to be putting in significiant time and money into fixing it, but have decided to go to a web system so there will no longer be a sync process. The data will come right out of the database in real time. I recommend not using the sync and in fact using Excel as I suspect it will be less frustrating for you.

Daleezer: I advise switching to Excel this year, unfortunately.

The cost report prices a Tripod CV joint with grease at $45. Our system uses an integrated stub shaft and cup similar to Taylor Race's Tulip style stub axle seen here:

http://www.taylor-race.com/fra...Stub%20Axles%20Tulip

Does the "CV joint" definition include both the integrated stub shaft-cup as well as the tripod itself? Clarification would be appreciated.

Thank you,

The cost report prices a Tripod CV joint with grease at $45. Our system uses an integrated stub shaft and cup similar to Taylor Race's Tulip style stub axle. Posting the link for reference resulted in auto-moderation of the post, otherwise i would include it here.

Does the "CV joint" definition include both the integrated stub shaft-cup as well as the tripod itself? Clarification would be appreciated.

Bill, luckily my laziness has paid off and I'm not too far into the report to switch. I appreciate the help and hopefully the new system works out. When will the excel sheets be updated? Thanks for your help.

For my own reasons, I'm going to try to push through the software and not use Excel. Unless of course this problem cannot be solved: does anyone know why my fasteners table (specifically at the assembly level) will only show three or four entries? Does anyone know a way around this? I've tried using the "Add Record" button and using the Fastener Table and Fastener Browser to try and add records to my table. It's a very hit or miss process and only seems to be at the assembly level. Any ideas?

The CV costs are for the actual rolling element internal. So the ball/star assembly or the needle roller trilobe including grease. The housing for the internals are cost as made. So you will have to cost the Taylor tulip or stub axles as made.

The fastener trick is to add however you want but then to reselect from the drop down. Then when you leave that row it should recalculate the cost correctly.

I will be traveling and not have access to the internet/email until March 15. I ask you all to support each other until I'm back and will answer any open questions then.

Does anyone know how to cost rod ends? I've been looking in fasteners table but it doesn't appear neither rod end nor rose joint nor heim joint. Do they appear with a different name?

Can anyone help? Thanks in advance.

I don't know if it's lack of sleep, ambiguous wording or what, but the update they sent out recently has me a bit confused as to what they want out of the hard copy. They say the hard copy must "Use the official Cost Tables (posted on www.fsaeonline.com) for all costs."

Is this simply a way of saying all the prices we site must be based on these tables and not receipts (i.e. it's ok to use the cost software to generate the hard copy) or is it specifically saying that we must use the excel spreadsheets on the website to generate our hard copy?

Thanks

Rod ends are in the materials table under the bearings category.

Mmm... I was looking at them as fasteners. Thanks a lot!!!

Essayee,

Yes all prices are to taken from the "official price tables" located on the cost website, don't use receipts. If you are using the application and it is working for you then you can continue to use it.

Personally I have found that the application is causing more problems than it is worth so I have switched to the excel spreadsheet. The excel tables will continue to be updated throughout the 2010 year but whether the cost application software will be updated is another question...one I don't know the answer to.

George

Thanks. After speaking to the guy on our team cost least year I came to that same conclusion.

I tried to use the application, but you're absolutely right, it seems to be way more of a hassle than it's worth at the moment. I can't select FSAEM in the event drag-down, so I don't really trust that the application is communicating with SAE's servers.

I tried to mess around with the application as a tool for calculating the prices, but they proved to be a huge pain to use. Although a they initially require little more work as you get into the groove of using them, the excel tables seem to be the less time consuming approach when you take into account the amount of time wasted when the application refuses to play nice.