we are a new team on the 2009formula sae!so we donnot have many experiences in driver`s train!is someone could tell me something?

We use a local go-kart track, also try reading Drive to Win by Carol Smith.

1st
safety: choose a spot that is far from posts and sidewalks, they damage the car pretty bad when you hit them, especially right before comp.
Also make sur ethey always wear their safety gear, helmet suit and arm restrains!!!!

2nd
Try and find the best surface you can get, nice smooth big open parking lot, the better the asphalt the beter chance you have to break your car before comp which is esential.

3rd
make a track by the rule of comp, no point it being wider or less then comp otherwise it is not good for drivers as they might get habits that dont help in comp.

4th
Every cone they hit equals 1 big kick in balls, they learn pretty fast not to hit the cones!!!

5th
Recruit competitive karting drivers from your school, those that have driven in some sort of comp can perform under stress, actually real driver get better the more stress thier is.

6th
Make sure that you dont just let the guy or girl that designed the most of the car drive, usually the driver skill is inverly proportionate to their inteligence!!!!


Jude Berthault
ETS FSAE 2003-Current
Vehicle Dynamics

Don't get into the habit of sending each driver out there to see who gets fastest lap. That will do you no good in endurance. Make sure your drivers push hard right out of the gate and do not hit cones. Overall time is much more important that fastest lap.

Simulate each event a competition and do it often. Even acceleration takes some practice When the difference between a good time and a bad time is .2 seconds over 75 points, IT MATTERS!

We found gokarting to be extremely beneficial in choosing drivers and continuing to train them. It's also a great social activity to keep the team interested. They're simple enough to let your drivers focus on learning lines and throttle control before stepping up into the FSAE car.

another thing that you can do is look at track data. Two drivers will almost always be faster or slower than one another in different parts of a course. If you have data, you can compare lines, brake points, etc. and the two drivers can help each other get faster.

quote:

usually the driver skill is inverly proportionate to their inteligence!!!!

Tough statement. OK, take a look at Montoya, or Jimmy Vasser, they fulfill your theory exactly
But on the other hand, how dumb must have been a Senna or how wise a R. Schumacher???

I'd be pretty keen on seeing what other teams are doing regarding this as well since it's kinda been part of my job as testing manager this year.

quote:

Originally posted by terra_dactile:
1st
safety: choose a spot that is far from posts and sidewalks, they damage the car pretty bad when you hit them, especially right before comp.
Also make sur ethey always wear their safety gear, helmet suit and arm restrains!!!!

Would definitely agree there, you really don't need to hit much in these cars to do major damage. Look into local kart tracks, often during weekdays they are pretty empty and happy to have you. If possible try find one with a bit of runoff though, just in case. Again, with safety gear, there are so many things that can go wrong and at the end of the day the drivers will be wearing that equipment at comp, they should be getting used to it.

2nd
Try and find the best surface you can get, nice smooth big open parking lot, the better the asphalt the beter chance you have to break your car before comp which is esential.

Not much of a choice over here unfortunately, we have to take whatever we can get.

3rd
make a track by the rule of comp, no point it being wider or less then comp otherwise it is not good for drivers as they might get habits that dont help in comp.

I've found this a bit harder than it initially sounds, mainly because we don't have a truckload of cones or space to play with different layouts. Definitely try and throw slaloms and a hairpin in where possible though.

4th
Every cone they hit equals 1 big kick in balls, they learn pretty fast not to hit the cones!!!

Definitely reinforce this one early on, the fastest driver may actually be the slowest once cone DOO's are added to their time.

Also has anyone got any good info on using datalogging to train drivers? This year is the first time that we've been able to implement it. We mainly use throttle pos, brake press, steer angle and lat and long accelerometers. Is there anything else that would be handy. Also anyone got any good resources for using data to train drivers? We basically just compare plots from different drivers to try and work out where times can be improved.
Cheers,

quote:

Also has anyone got any good info on using datalogging to train drivers? This year is the first time that we've been able to implement it. We mainly use throttle pos, brake press, steer angle and lat and long accelerometers. Is there anything else that would be handy. Also anyone got any good resources for using data to train drivers? We basically just compare plots from different drivers to try and work out where times can be improved.
Cheers,

I recomend the Racecar Data Acquisition book that is available on the SAE website. It talks a lot about what the data means, how to improve the driver, and is very easy to read. It is more of a baseline book, not really in depth, but does include calculations and such. I really recommend it.

There was a comment about setting up a "competition course". If you have trouble getting cones try asking a local autocross group or even construction company to borrow some on your test days. We have found this to work well for us.

At the most basic level, make sure that you practice the events like they will be at competition. This means, full safety gear, arm restraints, full cones (inside and OUTSIDE of skidpad). Even good drivers sometimes choke, so it’s good to get them very used to the events so there is less pressure the day of the events.

Practice tight autocross courses with minimum radii turns and slaloms. I hate this, it sucks, is not fun, etc. but SAE courses will have these aspects to them, and you can really loose a lot of time if you find that your car can't steer enough or that the steering is too heavy.

Unless you don't have a choice, I would not start new drivers out in the fsae car with slicks. Slicks are tough to drive on (and expensive!) and also, slicks plus lots of power can be disastrous because there is very little room for error before the tires slide out. Coupled with parking lots, curbs, poles, it can be dangerous. I agree with the other poster that go karts are a good starting spot and even I learn a lot from them (running endurances and such).


Good luck, be safe.

I hear that some teams physically train there drivers and put them on special diets to lose weight. Guess that what you have to do to win west.

no more weight loss for me anymore...we figured out that with more weight our tires get hotter and I pull more g's. Or I really like chipotle.

chipotle does give you that extra thrust, seems to be working for the Brawn GP cars:

Brawnpace secret!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Cook:
no more weight loss for me anymore...we figured out that with more weight our tires get hotter and I pull more g's. Or I really like chipotle.

Our best driver is 200lbs and about 6'2". Like i said its still baller that you did that.

I would put a clock on a kart driver. Make sure they are consistent every lap. I want to see aggressive, smart driving and that driver has to take chances like no other.

You find those two traits, make sure they do not burned out too soon or have "seat gap" like Smokey Yunick said is a fearless driver that does not worry about death or family is win at all costs.

quote:

Originally posted by 3wVo:
I would put a clock on a kart driver. Make sure they are consistent every lap. I want to see aggressive, smart driving and that driver has to take chances like no other.

You find those two traits, make sure they do not burned out too soon or have "seat gap" like Smokey Yunick said is a fearless driver that does not worry about death or family is win at all costs.

I really don't think that has anything to do with autocross speeds....

Can't really add much more to what people have said. It is well worth getting in someone who knows what their doing to cast their critical eye over the drivers. Whether that's just an alumni who was a good driver, or someone else you know who races karts/cars professionally, it will help identify the areas they can improve massively.

Spending just half a day with someone instructing you can teach you stuff that would take literally years to identify yourself. If they refuse to listen, they're just not ever going to be fast. Any good driver will tell you they never stop learning!

An alternative to finding a good driver would be to get someone who's good with telemetry to have identify areas of improvement. Not quite as good, but better than nothing!

This is how we do it in Iowa:

X-Treme Driver Training

Oh yeah, lots of good other info here from others...except the whole "aggressive, no chances" thing. I've seen many aggressive drivers, and I've seen several fast drivers, but I have only a couple drivers that were aggressive and fast, and they both did a lot of off-road racing. Chances are if they spent some more time on pavement and mellowed out, they'd probably be faster. Aggressive drivers are most often good at nothing but making team leaders angry and destroying a perfectly good set of tires.

And if you really need a fearless driver, that doesn't worry about death or family...you've got something SERIOUSLY wrong with your car.

quote:

Originally posted by Adambomb:

And if you really need a fearless driver, that doesn't worry about death or family...you've got something SERIOUSLY wrong with your car.

+1

You also have to think about what event they will be driving in. You want the smooth/consistent drivers in the endurance and the fastest in the autocross. If you have a fast but erratic driver in the endurance they will cause hell for your tires and brakes.