we are using a fan yes. we will be using the stock mechanical water pump. a power of 60hp.
i dont have much details cuz this is the first time for me and my team and we havent got much time to test or any past results as well. so we have decided to start off this time and turn to testing after our first event is done.
but i think i will go with something bigger rather than the 38 X 30. it should work. i just cant make up my mind.

Well, as I said: check how big our 2011 one is, and we run it that big cos we use an eelctric pump. So for a mechanical pump, our rad size might be excessive.

i have already made the calculation for the radiator dimensions by using COMAPCT HEAT EXCHANGER(by kays and london ),but there is some questions to have about this calculations :
1.the surface area Does the Required Area mean the Surface area on both sides of the radiator OR does it mean the total surface area of the cooling fins and tubes etc. ?

The value that I acquired is 0.6387m^2 which seems to be substantially larger than I expected.
2.also when i get the width of the radiator which is the water flow length is this valve divided by the number of tube per row and the number of passes?
3.some geometrical properties for water side i don't understand how they are calculated or where they can be given ?

Surface should calculate both side and for flow should divide by number of tubes

The gap should be fan and core face approx 4 inch and you can calculate core size by Q = U A MLTD calculation is in some simple staps

YES WE CAN MAKE SMALL RADIATOR IF YOU HAVE GOOD QUANTITY.

quote:

Originally posted by RE_Mythic:
Hey guys. I am designing the radiator system this year. I based my calcs from data from last years radiator which was a 10"x13"x1" single pass/core. For our car(600cc F4i), I calculated that a 10"x11"x1" single pass/core should be sufficient. Does this seem reasonable?

Also, where would you buy small radiators like these? I can't seem to find any site that makes them this small.

I have a question. From a top view, does it matter if the radiator is angled like this ____/____ as opposed to this ____\____ ? Assuming the left side is the front of the car.

\ is the radiator

__the side body of the car

I need to buy a radiator.It would be nice if you provide some suggestion for that.

The second method will allow hot air to exit/escape more easily. The first method may trap/restrict air in the sidepod region behind the rad.

I'm not guy that designed our cooling system but we have bought our radiators from Saldana for quite a few years. They will build a custom unit for a very decent price and are quick about it. We have had no problems with them ever.

Once we figure out our heat rejection, how do we size a radiator? I have spoke to many radiator manufactures and they have no idea other than to call their core suppliers. What am I missing?

quote:

Originally posted by thescreensavers:
Once we figure out our heat rejection, how do we size a radiator? I have spoke to many radiator manufactures and they have no idea other than to call their core suppliers. What am I missing?

A book on heat transfer. I have only read 1 page on this thread and they already referenced a book.

Guys does 1200 cm2 radiator seem resonable for a GSXR600 ... I've made alot of assumptions

Give me more DATA!

Mechanical water pump or electric? Flow rates. How big is your fan? Do you have a fan? How thick is the core? What type of core is it?

1200 cm^2 sounds in the ballpark for OUR system: 40mm ADRAD core, EWP115 (10A, ~40L/min), Pacet 11" fan (10A). At ~30cm width, 1200 gives 40cm height, which sounds right.

Well
we have a mechanical water pump and we are using a fan .
1)I've assumed that water enters at 90C to radiator , and it exits at 83C , i did this assumption because I've read that the usual delta T for water you can get is 9C .
2)I've assumed that ambient air enters at 25C and exits at 30C .
3) The material is Aluminium
4) I've assumed that the max GSXR600 power with restrictor would be 67 HP

that was my assumptions for the system

We have a car radiator from last year but I know nothing about it by it's length and height
and material
i dont know its thickness
i tried to make fins calculations but I'm lost

We are experiencing sever financial problems and some sponsers just decided to change their word and don't give us the money they promised they would due to alot of circumstances in Egypt

We can't even afford to buy a thermocouple thermometer

we decided we'd better use the money we have for things we MUST do (without them we won't get to the fsae at all like the external chasis and some design team stuff )

all i want to figure out know is weather this radiator we have is suitable or not because if not then we will put buying a new radiator on our priorities

i know the theoretical calculation and it's such simple the problem is for fins and also the problem is that i can't measure temperatures.

if only one can tell me the size (Area) of original GSXR600 radiator and we'd get a slightly larger one

PLEASE HELP

The issue is

is 1200 cm2 suitable and logical for our engine
and shall i just take the width and heights of
radiator rectangles and add them then multiply
by 2 (front and rear faces)
and compare to the 1200 cm2 ???

or its totally far since we neglected fins

Short answer: it will work, based on mech pump and fan.

But, I have issues with your assumptions (engineering): 25C is too low an ambient air temp. If you design for a 25C day, then in theory, your car should overheat on a 30, 40, or 45C day. Doesn't it get any hotter than 25C in Egypt??? I would personally design for a 45C day, but this may mean a very large rad.

I hope the max power of 67hp is not the power the cooling system is expected to dissipate. This means that you expect to be running at max power 100% of the time. We design for something like 16-18kW average power.

While I can see you have money problems, engineering only takes your time, and is the while point of FSAE anyway.

PS. DeltaT of 9C is in the right ballpark. From memory, we get DeltaT=4-8C (depends on airflow, I think).

Rez the 25C is based on this temperature graph


it indicates that temperature in Berlin doesn't exceed 25C through the year .

of coarse in Egypt it's ALWAYS hotter but we won't run the car much time .... and we will take our precautions during testing not to overheat the car .

As for the 67hp ....
The original max hp of our engine was roughly 93hp .... so I assumed that due to the restrictor the max power would be restricted to about 67 hp ...
I've read that usually designers design the raditor to dessipate about 30% of max power .
so the amount of heat that the radiator is designed to dessipate would be 30% of the 67hp

As for the fan and pump .... we are using the original mechanical water pump coming with the GSXR600 and about 20 cm diamter fan.

are these assumptions yet right or you still disagree .

Give me advice

Rex here is the link to the graphs
ambient temperature graphs

Well, if 25C IS the max, then ok.

20cm ~ 8" fan. A bit smaller than what I'm used to (we use 11" fan), but with higher water flow, should be fine.