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please dont get a 3 angle valve job, the stock head already comes with a 5 angle job.
please dont tell me how much more power we would have gotten with a properly ported head blah blah blah. We have had everyone go over heads from Portflow, DPR, Alaniz, everyone. M2 went over a head (they make billet heads for custom apps) and said to basically leave the ports alone. Minimal gains would be had. We have a more exotic head on the car now and not muchof a change. Dont tell me the ports are clearly too small when you havent got a clue what you are talking about. The internet has enough misinformation on it, we dont need more. port size and r/s ratios are another discussion for another post. If you want to get into that, start the thread up. our power WAS "at the wheels" and no chain. The dyno plots are not my property to display and i couldnt care less if you believed me or not. The power calculations are out the window, the engine dyno was never used (honda motors spin backwards) and the car goes 8s. if you would like to discuss this more email me. ... yeah what dominic said STFUPTY we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of the dreams --willy wonka |
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quote: I was reading back to the start of this thread, and found it kinda funny that no one has shared any of those details  www.formularpi.com |
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Yeah I think people are believing that they have to be secret about their engines, ala formula 1. Personally I have my own ideas of what is required to make a good engine for this competition (as outlined in my first post) and I was just wondering what others were doing. My opinions haven't changed...
Anyway, does anyone actually want to respond to the question asked? ------------------------- UVIC Formula SAE Team  http://fsae.uvic.ca |
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Well, for that matter, yeah, i want to respond. We are currently making NO internal mods to our engine just to keep it simple and reliable. We are Planning on tuning more than anything. There is much drivability to be had in simple tuning. Lack of funding makes it hard to really do anything special, so our concentration is on intake and exhaust configuration. Currently, our exhaust has adjustable primary and secondary lengths, and our hope is to implement continuously variable intake. If it doesn't work, we'll lock it in one spot, and hope for the best. Reagrdless, whatever we use will be tested. That has been our downfall thus far. I hope someone will let us in on their "secret" as to their actual internal mods. We can't afford to lose $2000 CDN to an engine meltdown.
Kevin Hall U of S Huskies Racing |
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The '99 GSX-R's had a problem with the cam chain tensioner. I had mine fail on my race bike in the middle of a qualifying session. Luckily I noticed it as soon as it happened and rode off the track. There was a recall in 99 but unfortunately the new part was also know to fail.
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Is the '99 GSXR the "same" motor as the '01 (chain tensioner wise).
Sorry, but after 3 years with Honda, this is my first Suzuki. |
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Hi, I'm the engine leader of the Universidad Simon Bolivar in Venezuela.
We are now in a National strike since December the 2nd and we have been unable to work since then. We are using a CBR 600 F4i for the 2nd year in a row. We are going to use a custom made throttle, fiber glass restrictor, aluminium cilindrical plenum (not yet determined the final volume), fiber glass pipe ends, aluminium pipes. We are building the injectors's body to reduce weight. In the exhaust, we are using a custom header (stainless steel hopefully) with one muffler. We are going to use the stock ECM and not going to make any modification to the engine parts. We are getting the 4-stroke virtual engine, it's supposed to be here on january the 6th. IMO, I think all the engine works should be towards optimizing the intake and exhaust configurations and trying to reduce as much as you can the weigth of them, unfortunately we do not have acces to the ideal materials here in Venezuela such as carbon fiber or titanium, and there are expensive. You all should be aware that we are using very optimized engines (yamaha, susuki, honda, etc), running with a restrictor and you are not going to get much more power using the common street tunning tricks. But as I said, that's my opinion. Sorry for the lenght. I'll be glad to here others team works and opinions, take care, Alfonso Ochoa Engine Division Leader F-SAE USB, Venezuela. |
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quote: No the '01 is a total new engine. But some of them still have a tensioner problem. I think for 45USD people are silly not to get the manual one. GSX-R Zone |
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Hi, i´m from venezuela, as you know in this moment here in our country we are pasing trought great problems because there is national strike against our president chavez..(i support the strike), well my point here is any body of you knows why the cbr 600 f4i engine can´t get an stable operation even with it´s original throttle body.. yesterday we turn on the new engine with it´s throttle and it turned on easily but worked little unesteady, then we turned of and few minutes later we try to start it and can´t turn it on.. we think that the engine could be a lot of time without use that could make difficult worked with it, but i think that the cause can be other,electronic stuff, any body knows anything about this, we will appreciate your opinion
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Dude there could be a million reasons why your engine isn't started but I'll help you through them.
My email is tooleboy@hotmail.com if you wanna do this a little quicker. Everyone will have a million different ideas and may send you scrambling to do a million differnt things. I don't know what your using (injectors coils custom trigger wheels ECU etc) So I can't nail down your problem but I guarantee with more info we can get er started. I'll start with the obvious if you haven't checked these yet go for it #1 check to make sure your battery is still good easiest way is to try a new battery or one from your car that you know has some juice. #2 make sure the engine has got oil that's not sludge. The F4i was a 2000 or 2001 engine so provided there is oil in it should be good enough to move. #3 You say you're using the stock TB does this include the air box and is the map sensor (One of 2 sensor that came with the airbox connected #4 what ECU are you using to run the engine. #5.You say you go the stock TB but make sure you have a MAP sensor into your ECU or you won't get very far. If this get's you on your feet great. But I'm guessing you've already got this far. Let me know. |
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Hello everyone.
I hope your progres for Detroit is going alright. We got our Virtual Engine software package a few days ago. We haven´t found some data required to run the software with our configuration. We are running a HONDA CBR 600 F4i and need the following: * connecting rod length * piston height and compression height * squish clearance * clearance volume * valves diameter and lift We would appreciate very much if anyone could give us that data. Sadly, we can only work on computer right now, since all supliers and and stores are close because of the strike. Thanks a lot.. ANDONI MAZEIKA F-SAE USB www.formulasaeusb.com Andoni Mazeika 2002-2003 Team Leader Equipo F-SAE USB Universidad Simon Bolivar VENEZULA |
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As to why your F4i isn't working.... well, we went out and bought an F4i BRAND NEW from the showroom in April 2001 to use in the May 2001 competition. We discovered that if you're using the F4i ECU/ECM and if you don't have the following, the engine will not run very easily:
Bank Angle Sensor Key Switch Assy (very big and bulky) Factory ECU/ECM 2 relays that are used on bike Transistor Pack Inlet Air Temperature Sensor Factory gauge cluster If you don not have the above the engine will probably not run at all. I would suggest trying to use everything factory. We have been using it all for 2 years now and have had no problems. By using everything factory, you can use the diagnostic mode of the ECU/ECM and gauge cluster to diagnose and determine Fuel Injection problems. When we stripped the bike after putting 500 miles on it it only took us 2 days to have the engine in the car and running with no problems. Haven't had a problem since!! |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Money:
Bank Angle Sensor Key Switch Assy (very big and bulky) Factory ECU/ECM 2 relays that are used on bike Transistor Pack Inlet Air Temperature Sensor Factory gauge cluster QUOTE] Since it is January I can give you a hint. YOU NEED A KEY SWITCH ASSY. "It's not a place you can get to by a boat or a train. It's far, far away. Behind the moon, beyond the rain..." |
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That's one of the MANY things that I listed that David Martins from Venezuela needs to get his engine running properly if he wants to do it plug and play style.
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I apologize, when I first read the post I had thought they had problems starting the motor. You need the key switch assembly to start the motor using the stock ecu (I am talking to you pink wire).
[This message was edited by Wizard on January 09, 2003 at 11:07 AM.] |
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well i really apreciate the help that David Money is giving to us. I think that David Money is right when we are going to start our new engine for the first time we should keep the original factory stuff and then work in order to run the engine to see that it doesn´t have any problems. But after this we believe in the filosofy of removing everething from the engine and the car that isn´t necesary for them operation. we removed a lot wire and replace switches carefully, back angle sensor by example and others, in order to keep the car light and without innecesary stuff. I think our engine problem is related to electronic stuff with MAP sensor or with the hoses that it use.
well people take care and get relax and enjoy |
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Hi, first of all thank you very much for all the help with our engine troubles.
Second, you don't need a key swtch assembly, you just need a 3,9 volts zener diode and 600 ohms (not sure about that, maybe it's 3 Kohms) to simulate the key switch. I think our engine's problems is a matter o the fuel circuit. Today we saw that the injectors were not spraying fuel. We check the fuel pump and it was ok. Then I did the Honda Manual test for the injectors and they look ok, they have the 12V when you turn the switch to on, and you can see the pulses that the ECY where sending to them. We finally believed that maybe the injectors are stuck. We'll check that tomorrow. If you think of something else, please let us know. Thank all of you again, we really appreciate this, bye, Alfonso Ochoa |
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I thought I'd try and get this topic back on the thread which it started. In terms of Monash engine development, we have focused more on engine tuning rather than engine developments. Here is a quick rundown on our 2002 engine:
Engine: Honda CBR 600 F3 Engine Management: Autronic SM2 ( One of the best value engine management computers available, just ask R.I.T). Probably the best feature of this ECU is the Auto tune option for fuel ( requires O2 sensor). Intake System: Carbon fibre intake manifold. Billet aluminium barrell throttle body incorporating restrictor. Exhaust system: 4 into 1 stainless steel extractors, custom straight through muffler. Cooling system: Twin dual pass radiators with ducted thermo fans. Electric water pump with electronic controller. With this setup we have achieved 80 hp @ 12,000 rpm and 58 Nm @ 8,500 rpm, with 50 Nm available from 5,000 - 11,000 rpm. Like I said, we've found most of our gains have come from time spent on the dyno ( especially tuning the fuel curve properly), rather than any internal engine development. We'd love to hear what power and torque figures other teams are getting. Regards, Scott "Maverick" Wordley & Roan "Goose" Lyddy-Meaney MOnash FSAE Wingmen |
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67 at the wheels at 02 competition on a stock F4i with a $250 piggyback system. We did a crude intake and a very tuned exhaust that allowed us to lower the engine by 3". By the way we only spent 1 full day of dyno testing to get the AF ratio steady accross the power band.
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