Frank,

I know where you are coming from.

I too have had problems with Keizer wheels over the years on my A-Mod autocross car. Just like you, I questioned if they actually have an established quality control program in place checking their products after manufacturing. To be honest, I don't think they do, but I might be wrong.

The last order I got from them (back in 2000) convinced me not to buy from them again. I ordered 8 wheels (one set for my car and one set for my friend's Honda) and NONE of them would even go on to the Honda's (or my car's) 4x100 wheel studs. After careful measuring, I found out the bolt holes were drilled all over the place and the worse one was 1.6 mm off. The taper seat for all the lug nuts holes were the wrong angle (I did not order them with the press-in steel inserts). The off-set of the wheel centers had a 0.090" variation among them. I too thought they were machined and drilled by a drunk.

I wouldn't bore you with the details on one of those eight wheels breaking off from the wheel centre after 9 autocross runs. I was just lucky that it broke during that shake down event before the car was taken to a hillclimb event (with a 100-mph top speed section and a 200-foot cliff at turn 4) a week later. The previous set I had earlier had failures involved with the rim bolts. Found them during initial check on the tightening torque on the nuts (wheels were brand new). Upon closer examination, the underside of the bolt head was not sitting flat. It was getting hung up with part of the inside radius of the bent centre plate. The bolt holes should have been counterbored to prevent bending moment being introduced to the bolt threads during tightening.


Wade,

It's great that your company will stand behind the products (meaning you will replace them for Frank, and in my case I did get a full refund). However, one thing about race teams is that there is always a shortage of time. Sending a bad product or wrong product always create problems because it will take time to rectify the problem. At best, the customer discovers the problem early and only time is lost. At worse, the part fails during competition and the end result is never pretty.

If my suspicion is correct regarding the non-existence of a formal quality control program, I would suggest it's time to establish one now. If there is one in place, then I suggest someone at Keizer should take a serious look at it. I was told back in 2000, when my wheel broke, that Keizer farms out its machining to an outside contractor. What is the current situation now?

Joe

You guys act like Keizer is trying to sabotage your efforts. I think encountering problems and finding a resolution is always a very real part of racing. Even at the highest levels of racing things never always go as planned.

I would say the explaination on one of the eight wheels was quite detailed and boring. In fact it was the longest paragraph in your post.

-Leon

where did you get the idea of anybody trying to sabotage anybody? i read the post, it seems like a constructive criticism.

i think joe encounter a problem and he is finding a resolution or giving a solution in fact ... which is to make sure that the company has better Q.C.

well at least now ppl know if they wanna go to the keizer's route, then they should order it way before the competition and that my fren ... is worth the explanation ...

Joe, I believe you probably had dealings with our production manager, Kevin, back in 2000. He has since been relieved. This is when the very first run of Magnesium centers hit the track. It was also the biggest problem we have ever faced in our companies history. No explanation for the machining. But I can explain why your piece broke. The first run of Mag centers we did were over heat treated. They were required to be a T4 hardness and were brought to a T6 hardness at the casting facility. This in turn made the pieces very ridged and brittle. This is also the only process in the wheel we outsource. We do not cast our own magnesium. All other work is now done in house. In our records it shows that you were the #6 order in the run. I can't tell you if it was machined out of house or not in 2000. The wheels hit the track and you can imagine it didn't take long for the calls to come in. After 3 months of shipping wheels things suddenly went in reverse mode. Over 275 sets or 1,100 mags were recalled world wide. Only 3 people opted not take there replacements but wished for a refund which we provided. You Joe were one of 3 people that had a failure with a center designed by us. I believe you were possibly driving a Miata, correct? Have you seen the 2005 style mag centers? We are a different company now Joe.
Yes, Joe we do have quality control procedures. Some have been in existence for some time and others have just been implemented at our new facility. Thanks for the concerns

Wade Huisman
Keizer Racing Wheels Inc.
kaw@mtcnet.net
http://www.keizerwheels.com
712-737-3095

To anyone wanting valid information feal free to contact me at any point. I can tell you both the pros & cons of running the lightest wheel in available in the world.


Wade Huisman
F-SAE sales & Tech.
Keizer Racing Wheels Inc.
712-737-3053
kaw@mtcnet.net
http://www.keizerwheels.com

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kwheels,

I'm with Frank and J. Cheng on this. Companies spend millions telling the world how great their product is (see above for small eg.). If the customer (Frank/Joe) finds out different, then I would encourage them to say so, as loudly as possible.

Z

If you ask me, the support a company gives to it's customers is just as important as the product. We recently switched to Keizer wheels and Wade was very helpful in getting our order on track, I even had to call him several times to add parts to the order or confirm shipping and billing information. In my experience with dealing with tire companies and steel suppliers you talk to a different person every time you call and they get annoyed if they hear from you for two days in a row. They just want to get the purchase order through. When a company shows the kind dedication to toward their customers as Keizer Wheels does (has anyone seen Penske, Goodyear, or BBS on these forums) it makes me want to do business with then again; and we havn't even run the new wheels yet!

I do not believe that coming on this forum and complaining about Keizer's wheels is the way to go about it. If you want to resolve the problem, call Wade and talk with him. If you want to let everybody know what is wrong with your wheels....fine.....don't go blasting that people should stay away from Keizer wheels. You are one customer of thousands, you don't know what the quality of the rest of them were. I'm pretty sure that if they we just crap that Keizer wouldn't be as successful as they are. Wade has made some great improvements with that company and is making it even better. Coming on here and blasting your complaint only hurts Keizer and gets you nothing. If any of you have been on a co-op or internship with a large company you know that mistakes happen in manufacturing and it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a quality of parts hitting customers at 100%.

As far as deflection goes, you get what you want out of the wheel. If you want a light weight wheel, then you will have to deal with some deflection. If you want minimal deflection then you will have a heavy wheel....simple as that. Yes there are design improvements that can help and different machining he can do to help it, but he is trying to get a good wheel to everyday racers at a low cost. Which he has done that very well. So if you are going to complain about the deflection, get blank castings from Wade and make your own. If you're going to complain about the machining, call up Wade and talk with him about it.

Hi everyone,

This post was started because of an issue we experienced with the keizer wheel centres we recently purchased, I just wanted to reply to let everyone know the outcome. After we contacted Wade at Keizer and provided evidence of the error he was more than helpful and express freighted 8 new centers to us, even though there were only 2 faulty ones, which is testament to what others are saying about the customer service from keizer.

cheers

Michael