Guys, I wish you could get out of your head how difficult things are for Indian teams. It's difficult for EVERY team, that's one of the attractions.

The Students in the West are poor! They don't all drive Skylines and do burnouts! Many of them walk or ride a bike, just like you.

In India they make bicycles, so there is a source of high quality steel tube.
I drew your attention to the new India Enfield engine a while ago.
Someone has developed a management system for that engine.
There is a vibrant automotive industry in India, all of whom must recruit somewhere, so there is a career path, and sponsorship from companies who watch this competition.
There is a huge electronics industry.
There is a huge aerospace industry.
There is a huge software industry.
What more do you want?

Force India has gained motorsport interest in India, so there is more motorsport knowledge than ever before. Go out and farm that interest!

Finally, there is the internet. This is the best source of information on the planet. Resourcing and researching does not mean posting on here 'Kn ne1 snd me a Dsin 4 FSAE cr?

All that does is insult the people on here who have done the research, have spent the hours, have lost grades and even had to repeat, have lost girlfriends and have spent their own money. That's how it works! So stop whining and start working!

Last year Steve Fox and I had a discussion over dinner about how we would enter the competition as a first year team in India. We concluded that we could build a car that would pass all the requirements, would finish all events and would not finish last for $2,000! Yes $2,000! It wouldnt be pretty and there would not be any unoptainium or unavailabillium on it. It would roll on street wheels and tyres....But it would roll!

Then once the team have built their first successful car, they can evolve......Just like every other team in FS, FSAE, FSG, FJSAE, FSAE_A or even Formula 1!

Enough preaching

Good luck in your adventure

Pat

If there is anyone who can boost morale is no one but Pat Clarke.
THANKS A LOT SIR.
That cycle industry analogy was a master stroke!
My team is also showing signs of FSAE mania !
Sometimes enthusiastic and brimming with confidence and sometimes dejected as our college has still not approved it.

We even worked on a 40 year old dead Chevy engine and brought it back to life, to prove ourselves but lets see what happens.

Lets keep the information(technical and event related) flow going, else the forum will loose its meaning.

Thanks a lot again Sir, for unbridled support and appreciation.

Dreaming to do doughnuts in a Skyline though...

About the engines..
Why not use two Pulsar 220s ??
one at rear and other at the front and get a four wheel drive with loads of traction ?
Although outrageous but please review and think about it..

Himanshu Gupta
Suspension Design and Dynamics
himanshu.renegade@gmail.com
NITK Racing.
National Institute of Technology, Kurukshetra

Go with the CBR600f4i/Yamaha600rr for engine dont think of anything else.
If any team needs help in getting down Engines
I am sure any team which has already built a car can help.
The main issue we face is getting spares .(Dealers tell f4i is out of production)
Will apreceate any help on that.
Cheer up guys, Indians build the cheapest Cars and can potentialy score 90s in Cost
Siddharth Mandal
www.ashwaracing.com

those were some reALLy encouraging words from pat..actually that idea of buildng a car for 2000 dollars is a very inspiring plan for first time participants like us who do not have any guidance from the faculty members of our university..

quote:

The Students in the West are poor! They don't all drive Skylines and do burnouts!

I can't speak for the rest of North America, but Nissan has never offered the Skyline here in the USA! That is in the process of changing for 2008, but most of the popular "boy racers" in Asia are either non-existent or just started to be imported here in the last year or two.

As for that $2000 FSAE car, I race with a guy who has never spent more than $100 for a race car! He has his share of class championships, driving rubbish street cars that are so wasted where a full tank of gas doubles their value. Given $2000 and some creative parts sourcing at the nearest junk yard, I am sure that a legal FSAE car can be built.....

boy ! nissan is will now offer you GTRs rest assured !!
You need a fair amount of optimism and some very efficient engineering to carry on with 2000$ thats it!

Originally posted by Damped:
boy ! nissan will offer you GTRs rest assured !!
You need a fair amount of optimism and some very efficient engineering to carry on with 2000$ thats it!

quote:

Originally posted by Damped:
boy ! nissan is will now offer you GTRs rest assured !!

The sidewalks of North America will never be safe again!

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/skyline/
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/blog/002-Nissan-GTR-crash.shtml
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/07/aw-snap-first-nissan-gt-r-crash/
http://www.autospies.com/news/Wrecked-Nissan-GT-R-27844/
http://www.japanesesportcars.com/galleries/img386.search.htm
http://www.japanesesportcars.com/galleries/img387.search.htm

If you're looking for a cheap source of "like new" auto parts for your project, just follow a Skyline around for a few days.....

let us all get back to point....this thread was supposed to be a platform to share knowledge and not discuss day to day to problems.....

as pat said, everyone is poor and works it out the hard way to reach the top.....thats how you learn in racing...there is no shortcut, the only shortcut is to leave this field...

so, lets list down the problems one by one....each one of you who is starting first year or lets say anyone who has any kind of help required, post it here....

people who think they can help these problems or they can provide productive solutions are requested to do so .....

and please stop whinning about curriculum and college not being supportive, earlier there was one team, now there are 4 others who are constantly doing it , it means everyone can do it ....

bring your problems here , but at the same time look for solutions on this forum by using search option....

cheers
vandit
ashwa racing(06,07)

hi
i wanted to know what material does other Indian
Fsae teams use to make Uprights ...initially i thought of using 7075 T6 Al but this is not available here (chennai).

how about other alloys like Al 6351 , 6061
or make the uprights using mild steel.

Harshit
IITM
chennai

Hi guys,

After having started this thread I had made a google group - FSAE teams India.

Membership is open. Join the group. Lets have a little forum for ourselves and spare the others who are not interested.

Here is the link:
http://groups.google.com/group/fsae-teams-india

quote:

Originally posted by PatClarke:
Last year Steve Fox and I had a discussion over dinner about how we would enter the competition as a first year team in India. We concluded that we could build a car that would pass all the requirements, would finish all events and would not finish last for $2,000! Yes $2,000! It wouldnt be pretty and there would not be any unoptainium or unavailabillium on it. It would roll on street wheels and tyres....But it would roll!

Hi Pat,

I was a bit curious about how you reached that figure. I agree we might have a cost advantage than to others but 2000 dollars is far too less.

Chittad
Raftar@IIT Madras

Chittad,
I have already told you the car wouldn't be pretty but that it would be driveable.
The view is a little hazy through the bottle or two of red we had shared.
I seem to recall a twin tube chassis made from exhaust tubing with enough superstructure to pass the rules (Roll hoops, side impact structure etc), No suspension as such, but the chassis hinged in the middle and sprung with rubber bands made from inner tubes (to pass the 2 inch wheel travel rule). Gokart steering, roadcar wheels and tyres, hubs and brakes etc and an Enfield 500cc single on a carburettor.
The bits would be sourced second hand from wreckers. Everything adapted, nothing made from scratch. Even the restrictor could simply be made from a 20mm gasket.
Bodywork would be simple riveted on sheet metal (from old oil drums?)
I still think $2000 is possible. Of course labour is not factored into the cost =]

Not that it matters, no-one would do it anyway, not when there is expensive carbon fibre, racing wheels and tyres, 12,000rpm engines with bespoke ECUs to be had.

Pat

You obviously were inspired by the Peugeot ad from a few years back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQf9dn0pDk

I can't see it passing tech without proper suspension though (see rules section 3.2.1).

You certainly wouldn't come in last if you'd build that car. You'd have to be excellent in the boring stuff aka the statics though. If you can make it through the endurance then, I think you could even get into the top half of the field.

How far up you get pretty much depends on how bad the other teams are doing though.

Okay then Screwdriver...Put swing axles on it....won't change much :-)

Should clean their clock in Cost :-)



Pat

quote:

Originally posted by dopa:
i wanted to know what material does other Indian
Fsae teams use to make Uprights ...initially i thought of using 7075 T6 Al but this is not available here (chennai).

how about other alloys like Al 6351 , 6061
or make the uprights using mild stee.

as a first year team we used, mild steel sections to make uprights....we used rectangular sections and according to design machined them and welded.....some team use pipes also to make uprights....

but we switched to aluminium 6351 T6 (as u mentioned) next year ...and the weight was seriously reduced...

7 series is available in bangalore....but it's expensive .

quote:

I seem to recall a twin tube chassis made from exhaust tubing

Oh lord.

my idea of cheap car with all rules cleared and endurance possible to clear...

chassis - MS tubes (available everywhere in india)
engine - as pat said enfield 500
suspension - kinetic (we ran them on our first car)
brakes - front disc brakes of any bike in india(we used TVS victor disc and caliper....but beware dont use master cylinder of these bikes)

steering - manufacture normal rack and pinion, with basic calculation(u should do atleast this much to be called as designing race car)

brake pedal assembly - take some aluminium or MS pieces and weld them for normal ABC ..

air intake - hmmm, do some research on net and u will surely do decent intake....

and i think all above things within 1.5 lakh or not more than 1.75 lakh is possible ...thats like approx $4000.....i know it's more than PAT's estimate, but again it's very comfortable to generate this much amount of money....

the major cost is to transport the car and Team tickets...

ExFSAE,
I never claimed for a second that it would do well in Design :-)
Pat

thanks shanky for the information....did u machine the 6351 T6 using CNC ...or welded it ...i am a bit confused as i have read somewhere in this forum that people have made uprights by welding 6061 Al or is it that 6061 is available in rectangular tubes which can be welded like that of mild steel....i would appreciate if someone could clarify on this